You know, I agree this thread went off topic and I was prepared to draw a line under it. What really gets my back up though is a comment like this. These are opinions and IMHO opinions about a rather important subject. Now I didn't happen to agree with Mr Croydon but I thought we were having a civilised debate and I certainly believe in his right to hold those opinions. However, whatever the opinions of myself and the other contributors are I am not happy to hear that this is all apparently "****e".