Alan Pardew as Spurs manager?

[Boss]

Oh it means a lot. You're having a go at me for thinking that Pardew might be good enough to guide Spurs, yet you're instantly dismissing him with a 'guarantee' that he's going to fail in the near future?

What's interesting is that you're using Pardews previous positives to try and suggest he can be good enough for spurs, yet if I mention about Pardew leading charlton to 11th in the championship, you decide to call me immature, this is why you sound rather young mate.

 

[Chappaz]

You being so defensive means this is going over your head as this has nothing to do with him not being a big name.

Harry Redknapp had no previous experience of managing a team into the champions league yet he was the perfect choice for our club at the time as when arry arrived at the club, the expectations were much less. In fact he had nothing to lose and gew in the job and his talents as a manager just worked perfectly, hence us now being seen as a top four club but not good enough to make the step up, yet.

"This has nothing to do with him not being a big name"

And then:

"[Harry] was the perfect choice for our club at the time as when arry arrived at the club, the expectations were much less"

Pardew isn't suited to our ambitions and the reason you're being called naive, is that you believe after 30 games he has proved that he could take a club like spurs into the champions league, get them to a champions league semi final and help us keep Modric & Bale.

You are saying that Pardew "is not suited to our ambitions". I'm saying that he might be, and that you would never know for sure unless you tried him. I could certainly look at some managers and be 99.9% confident that they wouldn't be good enough, but after what I've seen from Pardew (and remember, I've taken notice of him day-in, day-out for two seasons now) I think there's a possibility that he could do it. I'd certainly not be able to dismiss him entirely.

And I don't think 30 games has proved that he could get you guys to the CL semi-finals . Don't twist my words. I said that in the last two seasons, he has proven that he has a particular set of managerial skills which could allow him to do quite well. The tactics, man management, PR, transfers and management of difficult/sought-after players has all been of a very high calibre. This is reflected in the fact that we've went from relegation to the Championship to 5 points away from you guys just outside of the Champions League spots in two years.

To improve on this, if arry leaves, we require a manager that can not just match arry, but also take us further and to suggest Pardew, is laughable if we're actually having a serious discussion on this topic.

Why?

Chappaz - I think you've offered a hell of a better argument for your case than some of the people arguing against you. Even if you've not reached the mighty milestone of years which some on here have (I heard that some people here are IN THEIR TWENTIES!). Please don't judge all the Spurs fans on here by their responses.

Basically I have to agree with PNP - which is to say I'd like to sit on the fence. Pardew has shown a lot of the qualities that you mention (Barton and Nolan, for example, were "big players" at Newcastle, contrary to what some have said, and he showed strength there) and yes - that may well translate well to a club like Spurs. But I'd like to see how he gets on next season.

But put it this way - Spurs have a God-awful record at appointing managers since Venables. So frankly I would be no more pessimistic about Pardew than about almost anyone else. Managers who looked great on paper have bombed, managers who looked weird on paper have bombed and a couple (Jol, Redknapp) have succeeded beyond all hope. So who the hell knows how he would do.

I guarantee that no one knows.

I agree entirely. I don't know either, I just don't think he should be dismissed so quickly by some people just because there aren't many big names on his CV. If you reflect on the fact that we've went from The Championship to battling for the European spots in only a couple of years, all under the guidance of Pardew, it's frankly ****ing unbelievable, and something you'd expect from a Mourinho-esque manager.

Pardew might flounder next season, but you guys could bring in a big name manager who struggles to adapt to the team. That unpredictability of managerial appointments means that everyone with potential should be considered at least.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Chappaz has a very good point about Pardew's management of Ben Arfa.
He's managed to keep a player that's known for his fiery personality focused and calm, for the most part, despite spending most of the season on the bench.
He's now using him to good effect on the run in.
It bodes well for his future as a manager.

TheBoss is probably right about Pardew replacing Redknapp, though.
Levy will want a manager with a bit of clout and a proven track record, in my opinion.
If not, then he may return to the DOF system and install an up-and-comer.
Either way would almost certainly rule out the current Geordie boss, regardless of any personal preferences that we might have.

 

[Boss]

You are saying that Pardew "is not suited to our ambitions". I'm saying that he might be

Mate, listen if you actually stop and think more, you will realise you're defensive nature is allowing you to over praise Pardew.

Now, if in a years a time Pardew has lead Newcastle to 5th and helped you push for the top four then you can come on here and state your views and they would have more weight, yet you're a year too early and this why you're carried away.

Pardews previous does not suggest he can carry his success with Newcastle so the only way to change this, is with actual facts, which are to lead Newcastle to consistent top five/four finishes.

What Spurs require is a manager with that ability to keep spurs in the top four, now that doesn't have to be a big name like mourinho (who ive stated we have no chance of getting).

To take a punt on a manager that has done well for 30 games but previously not had the record to suggest this is the level he should be at, would be a big mistake.

 

[Boss]

Chappaz has a very good point about Pardew's management of Ben Arfa.
He's managed to keep a player that's known for his fiery personality focused and calm, for the most part, despite spending most of the season on the bench.
He's now using him to good effect on the run in.
It bodes well for his future as a manager.

Thats not relevant to being a possible contender for spurs as why don't we discuss any (alleged...ill be fair) failing out's Pardew has had with previous players? or is that immature to talk about negatives?

Remember to praise someone for a quality, they have to have consistently shown it, hence if you manage one player well but not the other then its inconsistent as Pardew may well have a great relationship with the newcastle players and Arfa, yet would you be confident he could walk into a bigger club, with bigger players and not upset people?.

 

[Chappaz]

Mate, listen if you actually stop and think more, you will realise you're defensive nature is allowing you to over praise Pardew.

Now, if in a years a time Pardew has lead Newcastle to 5th and helped you push for the top four then you can come on here and state your views and they would have more weight, yet you're a year too early and this why you're carried away.

Wrong. Why is further evidence like that required to back up my point? At the moment I think Pardew has the skill set to take on a team like Spurs and do very well with them. Whether that's now, or in 5 years time, is utterly irrelevant.

You mention my views having more weight, but I frankly couldn't care less if they do. I'm here to share my opinion, nothing more.

What Spurs require is a manager with that ability to keep spurs in the top four, now that doesn't have to be a big name like mourinho (who ive stated we have no chance of getting).

Well Pardew has had the ability to do this to Newcastle, so what more managerial ability is required exactly? I don't know why keeping Spurs in the top 4 is considered such a feat which only the gods of the managerial realm are capable of. If you spend enough cash on good enough players (as you have done) and then bring in a manager who can get the players performing as well as they can, then top 4 will be well within reach. Your notion seems to be that Redknapp is helping your side to overachieve, and is the sole cause of consistent top 4 finishes. In reality, I think you have the quality in the squad to be there in the first place, so Redknapp's task hasn't been particularly difficult. Oh how I would have loved Bale, Modric, VDV, Adebayor and co to help us along to 5 points outside of a CL spot, believe me.

That's why I wouldn't be so hasty to prioritise some of these big name managers, as they've coincidentally had whopping great big budgets and superstar players when they've had the successes they've had.

To take a punt on a manager that has done well for 30 games but previously not had the record to suggest this is the level he should be at, would be a big mistake.

There you are with your "would be" again. You can keep repeating it if you like, but you have absolutely no idea whether he would be a big mistake or an actual success, so you cannot possibly say for certain. We've made the mistake of dismissing him before and look at us now.

As for his previous record in the lower leagues, ignoring the successes he's actually had, failure comes with just as many lessons, if not more, than success does. I'd be happy for Pardew to have 10 years of learning lessons the hard way if it's cultivated him into a manager who is capable of doing what he's done with us now.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Its not that good a point about Ben Arfa, see how gets on with Taarabt.
Nolan a big player?...currently in the championship.
Barton shoots himself in the foot wherever he goes.
The reason your 5th is more on the poorness of Chelsea and Liverpool, and its also a poor excuse to use 5pts difference to us now, on the back of our bad run, not so valid at the time of a thumping at WHL, where Pardew could do little about it.

I'm not saying he's bad, atm he's just a 'flavour of the season' manager (last year it was Coyle...where are those twats championing him now!). He's better staying at your club for a bit of continuity for a change, and after some more time only then can we dispense with all the ifs and buts. For now he's too much of a punt imo.

 

[Boss]

Wrong. Why is further evidence like that required to back up my point? At the moment I think Pardew has the skill set to take on a team like Spurs and do very well with them. Whether that's now, or in 5 years time, is utterly irrelevant.

You only want to discuss Pardews positives from Newcastle? right? do you want to discuss his previous record, or would that mean pointing negatives?

If, as you want to believe, Pardew has learned from his mistakes and improved as a manager, it needs more then 30 league games to back this up, now if you don't understand this, then yes you're naive and again because you sound so defensive you won't see this.


also you typed

If you spend enough cash on good enough players (as you have done) and then bring in a manager who can get the players performing as well as they can, then top 4 will be well within reach.

then

In reality, I think you have the quality in the squad to be there in the first place, so Redknapp's task hasn't been particularly difficult.

Arry hasn't just had one good season, he has proved it consistently since he arrived, which is why he is so highly rated.

You have his high opinion of Pardew after 30 league games as manager, which shows you get carried away, hence you need wait and see how Pardew performs as a manager next year before you state claiming he is good enough for a bigger job.

 

[Chappaz]

Its not that good a point about Ben Arfa, see how gets on with Taarabt.
Nolan a big player?...currently in the championship.
Barton shoots himself in the foot wherever he goes.

It doesn't matter where they are or what they're doing. Players like Barton, Nolan, Ben Arfa and co could be just as difficult to manage (if not more so) than any of your players. Just because they're playing at the top level and earning a lot of cash, it doesn't mean that they're far more difficult to manage by default. Some players in lower teams can be some of the biggest arseholes to manage in the Premier League.

The reason your 5th is more on the poorness of Chelsea and Liverpool, and its also a poor excuse to use 5pts difference to us now, on the back of our bad run, not so valid at the time of a thumping at WHL, where Pardew could do little about it.

Hey, I'm just taking the results as they come. No matter how good/bad your recent run is, you're still 4th place, with us only 5 points behind, where we were in the Championship two years ago. Still a remarkable feat, is it not?

I'm not saying he's bad, atm he's just a 'flavour of the season' manager (last year it was Coyle...where are those twats championing him now!). He's better staying at your club for a bit of continuity for a change, and after some more time only then can we dispense with all the ifs and buts. For now he's too much of a punt imo.

Believe me, I'm not suggesting Spurs should go for him, or that you guys will. I'm just saying that hypothetically, if Redknapp left at the end of the season and Pardew was appointed, I think he would do a surprisingly good job. I'm not saying he WOULD do a cracking job 100%, I just have a feeling he would from what I've seen of him over the last 2 years. I've looked at a lot of managers over the last few years and Pardew ticks more boxes than most currently in the PL.

 

[Boss]

Believe me, I'm not suggesting Spurs should go for him, or that you guys will. I'm just saying that hypothetically, if Redknapp left at the end of the season and Pardew was appointed, I think he would do a surprisingly good job. I'm not saying he WOULD do a cracking job 100%

If thats what you believe, you don't need to take offence to spurs fans suggesting otherwise, i mean if fans said arry wasn't good enough for England (which they have) i dont go around harping on about why arry is great for the job as im just glad arry has done such a great job here and if he goes then i understand why and expect him to do well.

You should just concern yourself with what Pardew is doing at Newcastle, rather then try and add to a debate about pardew being a contender for spurs manager, just because some spurs fan (who may have been in the sun too long) suggested he would be a good choice!

 

[Chappaz]

If thats what you believe, you don't need to take offence to spurs fans suggesting otherwise, i mean if fans said arry wasn't good enough for England (which they have) i dont go around harping on about why arry is great for the job as im just glad arry has done such a great job here and if he goes then i understand why and expect him to do well.

I'm not. People are welcome to disagree with me. What I take offence to are those 'holier than thou' people who say that Pardew WOULD fail or WOULD be a bad choice, when really, they don't know for sure what would happen. I can think that he might do well, you can think that he might not do very well, but claiming with certainty that he would fail is a bit ridiculous.

 

[lennypops]

The Boss: You seem to keep implying that Chappaz's opinion of Pardew is solely based on 30 league games this season for Newcastle. This is despite the fact that he has been manager for more like a year and a half and that Chappaz has also alluded to the fact that Pardew had successes (as well as failures) in the lower leagues.

Let's look at his record:

Reading:

From relegation candidates to play-off finalists in his first year (?).
Automatic promotion in his second.
Play-off finalists the following year.

West Ham:

Lost the play-off final first season.
Second season wins play-off final to get promoted
Third season finished 9th in the Prem and got to the FA Cup final, only losing on pens.
Next season they have a dodgy start and new owners come in who sack him in December, one month after buying the club.

Charlton (this is the bit you've been waiting for, Boss):

Takes over a team who are 19th in the Prem in December and fails to keep them up.
Second season they finish 11th in the Championship.
A bad start to the next season sees him sacked in November.

(Charlton, a championship-sized club really, were in free-fall anyway and have been mooching about in League One for a while til this season).

Southampton:

First season they have a 10-point deduction but they still nearly make the play-off places in League One. They also win the Football League Trophy. To be fair, they also spend a lot of money.
He's sacked the next summer, not sure why.


So that, in a nut-shell, is this awful, terrible record that Pardew has prior to Newcastle.

No wonder the season where he finished 9th with Charlton in the Championship is the season you cherry-picked, Boss - the rest of his record doesn't look all that shabby.

I'm not saying that Pardew should be the next Spurs manager (and let's not forget that Chappaz is not saying that either) but to totally dismiss his past achievements or any thought that he might do OK at Spurs seems, well, unfounded.

 

[Spurf]

The Boss: You seem to keep implying that Chappaz's opinion of Pardew is solely based on 30 league games this season for Newcastle. This is despite the fact that he has been manager for more like a year and a half and that Chappaz has also alluded to the fact that Pardew had successes (as well as failures) in the lower leagues.

Let's look at his record:

Reading:

From relegation candidates to play-off finalists in his first year (?).
Automatic promotion in his second.
Play-off finalists the following year.

West Ham:

Lost the play-off final first season.
Second season wins play-off final to get promoted
Third season finished 9th in the Prem and got to the FA Cup final, only losing on pens.
Next season they have a dodgy start and new owners come in who sack him in December, one month after buying the club.

Charlton (this is the bit you've been waiting for, Boss):

Takes over a team who are 19th in the Prem in December and fails to keep them up.
Second season they finish 11th in the Championship.
A bad start to the next season sees him sacked in November.

(Charlton, a championship-sized club really, were in free-fall anyway and have been mooching about in League One for a while til this season).

Southampton:

First season they have a 10-point deduction but they still nearly make the play-off places in League One. They also win the Football League Trophy. To be fair, they also spend a lot of money.
He's sacked the next summer, not sure why.


So that, in a nut-shell, is this awful, terrible record that Pardew has prior to Newcastle.

No wonder the season where he finished 9th with Charlton in the Championship is the season you cherry-picked, Boss - the rest of his record doesn't look all that shabby.

I'm not saying that Pardew should be the next Spurs manager (and let's not forget that Chappaz is not saying that either) but to totally dismiss his past achievements or any thought that he might do OK at Spurs seems, well, unfounded.

Now that is an argument.

 

[lennypops]

Oh - one thing that hasn't been said so far (I don't think) and a reason why him coming here will not happen probably: Mike Ashley. If he's willing to make such a weird move as to appoint him in the first place he must obviously have rated him at the time. And now Pardew's stock is much, much higher. So it would take a massive pay-out to get him away from St James. Would Levy want to pay many millions of pounds for a manager who many would not rate as a big enough name? Seems doubtful to me.

If you're gonna pay out millions of pounds to get a manager you'd want someone of Ramos' stature and guaranteed success, surely?

 

[Hoddle is a god]

Well summarized, lennypops.

As I have previously asserted, only bias will blind the otherwise reasonable football fan to the fact that Pardew has more than paid his dues, and probably is ready to step up to the next level.

We're getting sneered at by the Chavs and the Gooners for even daring to breathe names such as Mourinho, Hiddink, and Guardiola, saying that we are far too small and lacking in financial muscle to match any ambitions that we might allude to. Looking beyond the obvious wummery, are they correct?

If so, and we are forced to look at managers in the tier below, I think that Pardew is worth considering.

I put my case no higher than that.

 

[Boss]

I'm not saying that Pardew should be the next Spurs manager (and let's not forget that Chappaz is not saying that either) but to totally dismiss his past achievements or any thought that he might do OK at Spurs seems, well, unfounded.

Look, really, you have a pointless case for Pardew, in terms trying to justify why you feel he is highly rated as I know all about his previous career, all you have done is highlighted the fact his previous management record is with average teams and he has an average record, are we meant be wowed by his performance?

If we are, then that says more about your ambitions then ours.

Also, before this season started, would you have expected Newcastle to be in the top five and would you have spoke so highly of Pardew? Ill answer that for you (as i know the answer) No to both questions.

Hence the 30 league this season are games which have changed your view of Pardew, which is naive as before this season started you never rated him so highly, adding to the fact his previous record doesn't suggest he can sustain this position (which you yourself mentioned) this means to put him forward for bigger jobs, is laughable.

 

[Boss]

Oh - one thing that hasn't been said so far (I don't think) and a reason why him coming here will not happen probably

There is only one reason as to why Pardew won't be spurs manager and that is he is not good enough to match our ambitions.

 

[Boss]

Charlton (this is the bit you've been waiting for, Boss):

Takes over a team who are 19th in the Prem in December and fails to keep them up.
Second season they finish 11th in the Championship.
A bad start to the next season sees him sacked in November.

(Charlton, a championship-sized club really, were in free-fall anyway and have been mooching about in League One for a while til this season).

Whats the reason for trying to make an excuse? Pardew was in charge when they were relegated from the premier league and he was in charge for pre season in the championship and lead them to there 11th place - if you want to praise a manager for doing well then when he doesn't do so well, the blame lays with the manager, not feeble excuses.

Its quite pathetic you have tried to attack charlton as a club for a reason as to why Pardew didn't have success there.

 

[lennypops]

Boss man - I'm not sure where to start with this - it is all so muddled. But I'll try.

Look, really, you have a pointless case for Pardew, in terms trying to justify why you feel he is highly rated as I know all about his previous career, all you have done is highlighted the fact his previous management record is with average teams and he has an average record, are we meant be wowed by his performance?

Er? In eleven years of managing "average" teams four play off finals, an automatic promotion, an FA Cup final and a 9th place in the EPL with a newly-promoted team is not doing pretty well? You are aware that any "average" lower league team would love a record like that.

If we are, then that says more about your ambitions then ours.

I'm a Spurs fan. My ambition is for regular top 4 finishes.

Also, before this season started, would you have expected Newcastle to be in the top five and would you have spoke so highly of Pardew? Ill answer that for you (as i know the answer) No to both questions.

Hence the 30 league this season are games which have changed your view of Pardew, which is naive as before this season started you never rated him so highly, adding to the fact his previous record doesn't suggest he can sustain this position (which you yourself mentioned) this means to put him forward for bigger jobs, is laughable

So you're saying that because he's done better than most would have expected this adds to the case against him being a reasonable candidate? I'm not sure how to respond to that. Probably best not to.

What are you the boss of?

 

[lennypops]

Whats the reason for trying to make an excuse? Pardew was in charge when they were relegated from the premier league and he was in charge for pre season in the championship and lead them to there 11th place - if you want to praise a manager for doing well then when he doesn't do so well, the blame lays with the manager, not feeble excuses.

Its quite pathetic you have tried to attack charlton as a club for a reason as to why Pardew didn't have success there.

You understand irony, right? You understand how you called Reading, Southampton, Charlton and West Ham "average" teams who had "average" results with Pardew is a bit more derisive than me saying that Charlton are a Championship club. I know my gran and my dad (who support Charlton) would agree with that highly uncontentious statement.

It was not an excuse - it was a bit of context.

Pardew was installed when they were 19th in December. You understand that, right? So you understand that things were pretty bad when he took over, right? And that had nothing to do with him, right?

That's not saying that is totally free from blame. But it's mighty relevant, isn't it?

OK - as much fun as this is I'll be getting back to the game now.