spot on..and no we wouldnt have got a pen!! luke didnt reply to that though!
Assists.
- Thread starter The Mighty Thor
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spot on..and no we wouldnt have got a pen!! luke didnt reply to that though!
Assists are a worthwhile stat, I think, though granting they're a little hit and miss. Ade's assists (second in the Prem) reflect the fact he's very good at finding the player in best position to shoot when he's near the goal. The problem, as people have said, is that the most crucial thing in football isn't scoring goals, or providing the pass the scorer scores with, it's the player who, typically, provides the second or third pass before the the goal, the one that allows the team to move forward dangerously. Somebody, I forget who, has got a "key pass" stat which tries to track that, but I have no idea how reliable it is. Anyway, it's the reason why the playmaker who provides that second or third pass is the most crucial player on the team.
S
Spur of the Moment
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This thread was started by the OP to support his criticism/dislike of Adebayor - no more, no less. The 'assist' stats undoing his argument that the striker has not added sufficient value to the team so is keen to demean them.
Equally, if you want to criticise Ade then it is clearly easier to overlook the 4 legitimate goals that he has currently had ruled out. If those were added to his tally there would be no case to answer.
Now I don't want to enter a scrap with a fellow Spurs fan, but just think we may have some better issues to debate..... my 2p's worth........
Equally, if you want to criticise Ade then it is clearly easier to overlook the 4 legitimate goals that he has currently had ruled out. If those were added to his tally there would be no case to answer.
Now I don't want to enter a scrap with a fellow Spurs fan, but just think we may have some better issues to debate..... my 2p's worth........
totsfan,if it was a non starter then why bother to comment on it?.
The Boss,you're getting near to insulting me there. In fact I think the posters have raised some interesting points but should not insult because of a difference of opinion. My thread was not started because of a dislike of Ade but to question why assists are relevant when every player on the pitch performs them even the goalkeeper and as to why Ade should be mentioned because of assists which are nothing remarkable in my opinion. I don't think Ade should stay because for me he hasn't performed well enough and that's all I'm saying but thanks for the feedback.
The Boss,you're getting near to insulting me there. In fact I think the posters have raised some interesting points but should not insult because of a difference of opinion. My thread was not started because of a dislike of Ade but to question why assists are relevant when every player on the pitch performs them even the goalkeeper and as to why Ade should be mentioned because of assists which are nothing remarkable in my opinion. I don't think Ade should stay because for me he hasn't performed well enough and that's all I'm saying but thanks for the feedback.
I've got mixed thoughts on the issue, as people have probably noticed in the past.
Someone like Modric won't get that many goals or assists in a season, but he makes us tick and he's probably our best player.
Adebayor's our leading scorer in the league and he leads our assists too, but he's arguably less important.
Stats are a guide, but nothing more.
Chris Brunt got more goals and more assists in the league last season than Xavi, as I've posted endlessly!
Someone like Modric won't get that many goals or assists in a season, but he makes us tick and he's probably our best player.
Adebayor's our leading scorer in the league and he leads our assists too, but he's arguably less important.
Stats are a guide, but nothing more.
Chris Brunt got more goals and more assists in the league last season than Xavi, as I've posted endlessly!
The assister only has the intention of passing the ball unknowing of what's going to happen next. Do you remember Glen Hoddle's two volleys? One against Forest. The "Assister" kicked the ball his way and before it hit the deck Hoddle rose and powered a thunderous unstoppable shot passed Shilton. I was there,it was magic. The assister had no knowledge of what was coming next and shouldn't have been mentioned. Just my opinion.
The stats don't separate the assists, a 5yd straight pass is not worthy of noting, a pinpoint delivery or sliderule throughball is. Just thought I'd add some stating of the obvious to the discussion. 
Mighty thor i commented on it because this is a forum for our thoughts,etc,therefore i'm entitled to comment,as other people have,if you don't want people commenting,don't start a thread
tots,you didn't add anything to it though.
notsosmart,suppose the forward then misses after a slide rule pass? Although the pass was perfect it means nothing if the forward misses and doesn't become a worthwhile stat. For me the only stat worth a note is goals. So a player runs 5 kilometers.So a team has 60% possession,unless they get that ball into that net it's all a waste of time and the stats mean nothing.
notsosmart,suppose the forward then misses after a slide rule pass? Although the pass was perfect it means nothing if the forward misses and doesn't become a worthwhile stat. For me the only stat worth a note is goals. So a player runs 5 kilometers.So a team has 60% possession,unless they get that ball into that net it's all a waste of time and the stats mean nothing.
agreed Mighty Thor,stats don't really intrest me much,you can alway's use the same stats for or against a player
It becomes nothing more than a completed pass, goal stats are black and white, assists are flawed, but we knew this.
Absolutely. Strange that, despite this being posted, this discussion is continuing...
NEWSFLASH! Stats don't tell you everything! I know! Shocking isn't it? Goals scored, clean sheets, passes completed, assists - they're all flawed.
Oh - and it was right that Ade's goal didn't stand at the weekend. It HIT him in the chest but then he controlled it with his arm in his hurry to bring it down. If you saw a defender do that you would have no doubt it was a penalty.
I didn't think we'd ever have to tell our fellow Spurs fans that. It's usually Arsenal fans who compare Diaby's assists to Iniesta or some other rubbish, who are the problem
He didn't move his arm towards the ball and it hit his arm straight after hitting him in the stomach so I don't see how he "controlled it". I've probably already said it on this thread but we wouldn't have got a penalty if it was a defender and the precedent has been set for players benefitting from their accidental handball when Chelsea scored their equaliser against us this season. It seems very harsh to me.
I didn't think we'd ever have to tell our fellow Spurs fans that. It's usually Arsenal fans who compare Diaby's assists to Iniesta or some other rubbish, who are the problem
He didn't move his arm towards the ball and it hit his arm straight after hitting him in the stomach so I don't see how he "controlled it". I've probably already said it on this thread but we wouldn't have got a penalty if it was a defender and the precedent has been set for players benefitting from their accidental handball when Chelsea scored their equaliser against us this season. It seems very harsh to me.
But that's not to say that it shouldn't be a penalty...
It shouldn't be a penalty because it wasn't intentional and there's no way he'd have had time to get his arm out of the way. It happens all the time where the ball comes off a defender's body or leg and bounces into their arm and they never get given. That said you can bet Man Utd would've got a penalty out of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...tion_907628&src_vid=Iar2OeOM63g&v=UEh08k_pr-0
OK - I stand corrected. After watching the video above I've changed my mind. I think I was a bit swayed by the super slo-mo during the game. There's no way he intended to handle it. He certainly didn't control it with his arm.
OK - I stand corrected. After watching the video above I've changed my mind. I think I was a bit swayed by the super slo-mo during the game. There's no way he intended to handle it. He certainly didn't control it with his arm.
As to handling: yeah, thanks for the link. Look, I may be blind or crazy, but it looks to me like he's doing everything he can NOT to handle. But it bounces into his arm, which he's just moved out of the way. And I don't think it hitting his arm gave him an advantage. Anyway, to me it's a flat out wrong call. And the interesting thing is that almost all the neutral fans said the ref had it right. I'm genuinely mystified.
As to stats: football is a game in which everything is done by a team, so individual stats are more reflective of team play, and less of individual skill than in a game like baseball or cricket, where the essential action is one against one. Still, the fact that 1-2 in the Prem are Silva and Adebayor shows me, at least, that it's a stat that generally reflects what it seems to, namely who is good at creating goals for other people. Ade is up there for a number of reasons: 1. The team passes well, moves quickly, and creates dangerous situations. As the main striker, Ade often has a good chance at either scoring or setting someone else up. 2. Ade works hard, so he's often the player leading the way. 3. He seems to be completely unselfish--I've always seen him pass when another player has a better chance, which they often do, as the natural tendency is to concentrate on the immediate threat, especially when he's a big, fast striker. 4. He passes well and accurately.
So I think while the most important single factor is the result of the team, the other three are mainly the player. I also think he's added to the team tremendously, and would be very difficult to replace. While I understand we may not be able to afford him, I'd be very eager to do everything possible to keep him. Any conceivable replacement would probably be a big step down.
As to him coasting as the season goes on: yes, I do seem him not hustling quite as much. But he still hustles pretty hard. And considering the number of injuries Spurs have had, and how hard he is to replace, I'd probably advise him to try to conserve a little more energy and try not to get hurt at this point. So I don't blame him if that's what he's doing.
As to stats: football is a game in which everything is done by a team, so individual stats are more reflective of team play, and less of individual skill than in a game like baseball or cricket, where the essential action is one against one. Still, the fact that 1-2 in the Prem are Silva and Adebayor shows me, at least, that it's a stat that generally reflects what it seems to, namely who is good at creating goals for other people. Ade is up there for a number of reasons: 1. The team passes well, moves quickly, and creates dangerous situations. As the main striker, Ade often has a good chance at either scoring or setting someone else up. 2. Ade works hard, so he's often the player leading the way. 3. He seems to be completely unselfish--I've always seen him pass when another player has a better chance, which they often do, as the natural tendency is to concentrate on the immediate threat, especially when he's a big, fast striker. 4. He passes well and accurately.
So I think while the most important single factor is the result of the team, the other three are mainly the player. I also think he's added to the team tremendously, and would be very difficult to replace. While I understand we may not be able to afford him, I'd be very eager to do everything possible to keep him. Any conceivable replacement would probably be a big step down.
As to him coasting as the season goes on: yes, I do seem him not hustling quite as much. But he still hustles pretty hard. And considering the number of injuries Spurs have had, and how hard he is to replace, I'd probably advise him to try to conserve a little more energy and try not to get hurt at this point. So I don't blame him if that's what he's doing.