I know we are sick of talking about it, but.......

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
remembercolinlee said:
I clearly have not said that calling someone a rude name is the sameas ethnic clensing...
You need to re read what i said...i said calling someone ginger or fat is rude and unpleasant but racism can and does lead to aparthied and etnic clensing therefore racism is not the same as being anti ginger...
Before you act so ignorantly read properly before you respond to whats written...you will be less likely tio make a twat of yourself.
Click to expand...

If this is a response to me you have completely & utterly failed to understand my main point. Might be my fault; maybe not enough clarity.

I re-read; your main point: seems to be that calling someone ginger is not as bad as calling someone black because ginger people have not been in the past, (which isn't true by the way: ironically ginger were seen as evil in certain mid African tribes and they were thrown on the fire) been enslaved and murdered. I argue that this protection was won on the backs of the poor historical victims who happened to be black, or Jewish or even within England catholic or protestant. To start scaling abuse BASED on what is less acceptable undermines the very law of equality that was so hardly fought for & won.

The fact you fail to understand this will (if enough people follow your suit) guarantee a repetition of similar events in the future: next time it might be fat people, or ginger people or even white people, personally with the worlds growing population I argue it's already old people,

Anyway I as much as you have sidetracked the thread; I obviously believe the FA process was flawed regardless of the level of guilt with Suarez. Ironically this leads to the same argument; allow an unequal system to continue, injustice will continue to happen.
 
My response was to terrifictriore....he said that i was claiming that calling some one a rude name is the same as ethnis clensing....which I didnt.
As to your point... I do not believe that my view that ginger people are not treated as abusively as people subjected to persecution leaved the way open to bad things happening in future. I was very clear nit to turn this in to a black v other oppression thing....thats why my previous posts refer to gay people gypsies and disabled people. If ginger people were treated in a say like aparthied or signs went up like no dogs no irsh no ginger peopl wantef here...if ginger people were ethnically clensed ... If they were treated dufferently in law then Id say there is no difference....if that was to happen in the future then I would change my view as the circumstances had changed...
I have no idea why terrifict got so arsey i was merely offering an opinion and hadnt laid into anyone.
 
"if they were treated differently under the law then I'd say different"

They are:

Go to a public place, point to the passing black person & yell; f*ck you black bast*rd.

Now go to same public place & tell to the first red haired person; f*ck you you ginger b*stard.

You will only be arrested for racially aggravated offences for one of those because sadly even though the law considers (rightly) them both an offence, society just like it did before always made an exception, cause its harmless ..you know , except your answers show,quite clearly you haven't grasped the danger inherent in that attitude. Hope you're not ginger!
 
remembercolinlee said:
My response was to terrifictriore....he said that i was claiming that calling some one a rude name is the same as ethnis clensing....which I didnt.
As to your point... I do not believe that my view that ginger people are not treated as abusively as people subjected to persecution leaved the way open to bad things happening in future. I was very clear nit to turn this in to a black v other oppression thing....thats why my previous posts refer to gay people gypsies and disabled people. If ginger people were treated in a say like aparthied or signs went up like no dogs no irsh no ginger peopl wantef here...if ginger people were ethnically clensed ... If they were treated dufferently in law then Id say there is no difference....if that was to happen in the future then I would change my view as the circumstances had changed...
I have no idea why terrifict got so arsey i was merely offering an opinion and hadnt laid into anyone.
Click to expand...

I wasn't being arsey just pointing out that you are talking a load of bollox (no change there).
Hatred is hatred, the cause of that hate is somewhat irrelevant. To give extra protection for some victims of hate only further embeds the notion of a unequal society.
 
If i threaten a ginger haired person id be arrested just the same as if i threatened anyone else...therefore they are treated equally in the eyes of the law....in aparthied south africa, jim crow southern states of america, during slavery, during the holocaust, in countries where ethnic clensing has occurred, in countries where it is illegal to be gay, laws are or were made to discriminate against various groups of people.... This does not happen to ginger people.

to suggest otherwise is plainly silly.

I only offered an opinion because earlier in the thread someone else suggested there was no difference between a racist name or a ginger whatever....i said that personally its all abusive but there is a difference in a wider context.

I think you have missed this point. I have not said its ok to personally abuse anyone nor i have isuggested its not horribleto have people say cruel things about you....i have simply said that there is a difference between calling people ginger and a wider issue of racism.
 
remembercolinlee said:
If i threaten a ginger haired person id be arrested just the same as if i threatened anyone else
Click to expand...

Very unlikely you would be just for calling them ginger, also if by some bizarre process you were actually charged and found guilty the sentence would be far less than for the same level of racial abuse.
 
Terrifict....
I aint said that you should give more protection to anyone ... I have said that there is a difference between being anti ginger and racism...
You contantly misquote me and then throw person abuse....
Go back and answer my points...
Ireferred to you as arsey cos you have not debated but merely thrown out misinformation and insults....last night you deliberately took out 2 or 3 lines out of a posting i made ... When i put the whole response up and showed you to be deceitful you disappeared only to reappear tonight with more incoherance and insults...learn to debate in a civil manner ... feel free to disagree but at least be polite and apologise when youve made a mistake...as i have done in the past on this board.
I have offered an opinion as i am entitled to so wind your neck in and deal with the fact that there are different opinions out there.
 
I said if i threatened a ginger person not if i called them a name....
I aint a lawyer but name calling is not always a crime....i think there has to be a threatening aspect to it. If i called you a twat in the street it would be unlikely to be seen as a threat....however if i caled you a fcking cnut i could well be charged....
My point re the law is....it is not legal to attack ginger people or to deny them housing, or to enslave them or to jail them for loving the wrong person, or to enslave them or ethnically clense an area of them....in the not too distant past currently in some parts of the world you could do that to people because of their religion, colour, sexuality etc. this is why i believe there is a difference.

your other point re sentencing...the fact that it has taken 18 yrs for the racist murderers of stephen lawrence to be convicted shows that it is not quite as straight forward as you suggest.
 
Like i said ...wind your neck in...stop selectively quoting....stop twisting what i've written and chill the **** out....if thats too much to ask then at least learn to debate in an honest way and accept that you aint always right....but hey i guess its more butch to call me bipolar, full of ****e, of talking bollocks, a mouthy gobshite etc....what a keyboard warrior you are!
 
The point is that its considered offensive and disgusting to refer to someone being black, but you hear 70k Mancs signing "You scouse bastards" etc at every home game, and there's no punishment. I wonder if Liverpool fans sung "You black bastards" every week at Anfield people would react to it in the same way? No, we all know that its not true.

Apparently its fine to stereotype scousers/cockneys and chant anti-scouse/cockney things every week at football but if someone mentions something about dark skin colour then all hell breaks loose. Shocking double standards there, lets be honest.

Not that I'm defending racism in anyway, Colin, just making the point, which is very valid in my opinion.
 
Lucass...it is wrong...i have no idea what the answer is to the idea that you can chant that .... I hate hearing spurs fans chanting about signing on cos the opposing fans are northern...i dont join in and i have explainedthe difference between banter and ****tyness to my kids so they dont join in.

On a personal level a ginger person being belittled will orcould feel as threatened or hurt or angry as me when me and my kids have been racially abused. My only point was explaining my view of abuse in terms of whole societies/laws etc.

I wish people would be less ****ty to others in all ways but dont have a clue about how it can come about though...so i try not to be crappy (except to gooners!)
 
remembercolinlee said:
I aint a lawyer but name calling is not always a crime....i think there has to be a threatening aspect to it. If i called you a twat in the street it would be unlikely to be seen as a threat....however if i caled you a fcking cnut i could well be charged....
Click to expand...

Technically yes you could be charged, in reality how often does that happen? However, call somebody a fcking black/gay/pakistani/muslim cnut and you can almost guarantee at least a visit from your local hate crime unit.


remembercolinlee said:
your other point re sentencing...the fact that it has taken 18 yrs for the racist murderers of stephen lawrence to be convicted shows that it is not quite as straight forward as you suggest.
Click to expand...

If you think that the issues with that case were caused by the skin colour of the victim rather than the general incompetence and specific cases of corruption in the met at the time, then we would need all night to even begin putting you right.

The fact the you (and most of population) can remember the victims name after all this time yet have probably never heard of most murder victims (even other racially motivated ones) shows that you are right, the situation with racism in this country is far from straight forward.
 
remembercolinlee said:
Lucass...it is wrong...i have no idea what the answer is to the idea that you can chant that .... I hate hearing spurs fans chanting about signing on cos the opposing fans are northern...i dont join in and i have explainedthe difference between banter and ****tyness to my kids so they dont join in.

On a personal level a ginger person being belittled will orcould feel as threatened or hurt or angry as me when me and my kids have been racially abused. My only point was explaining my view of abuse in terms of whole societies/laws etc.

I wish people would be less ****ty to others in all ways but dont have a clue about how it can come about though...so i try not to be crappy (except to gooners!)
Click to expand...

I agree with you, Colin. I think you either have to allow all personal abuse about people's heritage, ethnicity, skin colour, religion or allow none of it. You can't just pick and choose what's acceptable and whats not, in my opinion.

And I can't blame you for wanting to be crappy to Arsenal fans, they've rubbed your noses in it for so long, its your time now to get them back, and get them back twice as bad!
 
terrifictraore said:
Technically yes you could be charged, in reality how often does that happen? However, call somebody a fcking black/gay/pakistani/muslim cnut and you can almost guarantee at least a visit from your local hate crime unit.




If you think that the issues with that case were caused by the skin colour of the victim rather than the general incompetence and specific cases of corruption in the met at the time, then we would need all night to even begin putting you right.

The fact the you (and most of population) can remember the victims name after all this time yet have probably never heard of most murder victims (even other racially motivated ones) shows that you are right, the situation with racism in this country is far from straight forward.[/QUOTE

1) I live a mile away from where stephen lawrence was murdered and know plenty about the case as i was involved in the campiagn to get justice for him and his family. The police did treat the case and the family badly during this case some of which THEY admitted was down to their 'inadvertant' racism...the Mcphearson inquirey also found them to be intitutionally racist in the handling of the case.

2) i also remember the names of rachel mickel, milley dowler, holly and jessica, jamie bulger, ... Their cases (and many others) touched the soul of may people just like stephen lawrences did...it has nothing to do with colour and it is unbecoming to suggest there is anyother reason for this.

3) as someone who has been called a cnut on the basis of my skin colour and has been racially abused when ive been with my kids and on one occassion threatened with phyical violence when with my then 6 yr and 1 yr old it has never been as straight forward as you suggest....never has it gone to court and on the time me and my children were attacked (i had to hit the bloke who then ran off) the police questioned me (even though there was cctv footage as it happened in a shop...they attempted to send me and my children home ... on foot...across a common...in the dark .... without knowing where the ****er was.... I am in no doubt that this was just stupidity but it does suggest that your view that abuse to non whites and gay people is treated more seriously is not be as clear cut as you suggest.
Click to expand...
 
Lucaaas said:
I agree with you, Colin. I think you either have to allow all personal abuse about people's heritage, ethnicity, skin colour, religion or allow none of it. You can't just pick and choose what's acceptable and whats not, in my opinion.

And I can't blame you for wanting to be crappy to Arsenal fans, they've rubbed your noses in it for so long, its your time now to get them back, and get them back twice as bad!
Click to expand...

Like i said i honestly dont know what theanswer is but i guess i come down on it should all be stopped.

The trouble with giving it to arsenal fans is that i am a true spur...while i love us doing well i am just waiting for it all to go tits up and then i'll end up with egg on me face at best or eating ****e at worst hahahahahahaha
 
remembercolinlee- I agree with a lost of what you have posted there but really got to pick you up on the police issue (probably because thats what I have experience of)

1. you mentioned 4 other murders there going back over twenty years, not a lot really when you consider how many have happened in that time.

2. Hate crimes are by statute penalised far more severely than other crimes of a similar nature, and pressure from the bean counters means that they are now (not always in past) taken far more seriously than non hate crimes ??? of a similar nature.

3. There were and still are plenty of racist coppers out there but the whole "institutionalised racism" thing was a massive cover up for incompetence and corruption both in the lawrence case and a get out of jail free card for anything else done by the police in the past.
 
Terrifict....
1) thats true....I was explaining why I think people remember certain murders...
2) good point ... I dont think it is meant to say these are more important but to recognise that back in the day hate crimes (like gay bashing, race attacks, rapes etc.) were not always treated seriously...but i could be wrong
3) dont say much for the police does it...think you make,another good point.

enjoy your match .... And hoping we will be discussing great goals, refs decisions rather than more of poisonous stuff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back