TomTom94
Well-Known Member
This! And the irony of people clamoring for the 4-2-3-1 formation again doesn't even deserve the dignity of an answer.
Ben Arfa
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This! And the irony of people clamoring for the 4-2-3-1 formation again doesn't even deserve the dignity of an answer.
They tend to close the players down, and are more likely to pass when needed to. Ben Arfa has in flashes shown what he is capable of, but until he starts to produce to this level consistantly Pardew won't put in the starting XI. It took Nani a few seasons to settle into Man Utd flow and style, hope Ben Arfa can adapt to what's demanded of him.
Difficult games Man City away Chelsea at home and Fulham away? Man City away HBA was our best player Fulham away HBA was our best player.
His performance on the right wing against Blackburn was a big factor in us coming back and winning that game.
I'd be gutted if he left, so talented and some of the things he does are total magic. We really do have a mercurially gifted player on our hands. Sadly the defence and midfield are not strong enough to be able to accommodate his regular giving away of the ball.
Having said that Pardew's a great believer in the philosophy that no player is bigger than the team and that everyone has to band together and pull their weight defensively, he looks like he's learning that but he's still got some way to go to satisfy this particular manager. Having said that he also needs a good run in the team if he's to provide that spark on a regular basis.
After all we don't see everything that goes on behind the scenes. I really don't know what to believe so I'm on the fence pretty much, HBA could be a pain in the arse on the training ground but then back at West Ham Pardew played Hayden Mullins over Mascherano.
Having said that Pardew's a great believer in the philosophy that no player is bigger than the team and that everyone has to band together and pull their weight defensively, he looks like he's learning that but he's still got some way to go to satisfy this particular manager. Having said that he also needs a good run in the team if he's to provide that spark on a regular basis.
After all we don't see everything that goes on behind the scenes. I really don't know what to believe so I'm on the fence pretty much, HBA could be a pain in the arse on the training ground but then back at West Ham Pardew played Hayden Mullins over Mascherano.
Don't think so.
Pardew stated at the beginning of the season that he saw HBA as the number 10 (i.e. free attacking) role. It's not like it's an idea that hasn't occured to him.
Pardew is generally, and correctly, praised for getting the best out of all of the players and improving team spirit. With everyone but HBA. I think that suggests the problem is HBA, and not Pardew's management.
He'll be a lot better with Ba and Cisse, he needs players to exchange quick passes with; and he wasn't getting that with Shola and Best lumbering around - remember his interplay with Ba vs City? He hasn't even been that bad, he was our best player vs QPR and three goals in hardly any starts after a year out.
I concede that he was poor at Brighton, but the whole team were. We've been hammered because of that stupid high line, not because of Ben Arfa.
I concede that he was poor at Brighton, but the whole team were. We've been hammered because of that stupid high line, not because of Ben Arfa.
TomTom94
Well-Known Member
The irony is that because Demba has played the no.10 role so well this season, the only way Benny's going to get in is if he gets injured.
When I pick my own "Best XI" HBA just doesn't fit in either. It's clear we are much better playing 442 and HBA can't play in this formation. It seems as though Demba Ba has become the "No. 10" player we thought HBA was going to be this season and let's be honest there just isn't a better player is this role, in the premier league, this season than Ba.
It's gonna be a huge shame because he is a huge talent but he's a piece that just doesn't fit into our jigsaw and I wouldn't be too bothered if he left in the summer. Also, HBA doesn't seem like the type of person who is willing to work hard to change his game.
It's gonna be a huge shame because he is a huge talent but he's a piece that just doesn't fit into our jigsaw and I wouldn't be too bothered if he left in the summer. Also, HBA doesn't seem like the type of person who is willing to work hard to change his game.
To say Ben Arfa is the reason we lost to Chelsea, City, Fulham, etc... is beyond laughable. Get a grip. He was the best we had against City and Fulham and has dragged us up in other matches we've played, like Blackburn single handedly.
His quick passing and through balls would work wonders with attackers that actually put in effort. You can hardly have a clever passing game with Shola as your main striker.
As for Pardew and this No.10 master plan he has, it just doesnt work. He's never even done that role before, hes always at his best high up and out wide where he can cut in and have more space. It cant work when PArdew only uses it in a 4-4-1-1 because all we do is get Simpson or Krul to hoof it up to the most tightly packed area of the pitch... We're lucky to even get the ball in that area. Someone like Demba has to come back to win it, but then theres no-one ahead of him. I think the whole behind the striekrs role COULD work... but only in a sort of 4-3-1-2 playing behind both of them to give him more options and space. As people have already said, Ba loves to come back and link up play anyway.
Im going to be slightly biased of course, since Ben Arfa has been one of my favourite players since he came onto the scene and even more so that we somehow managed to sign him.
His quick passing and through balls would work wonders with attackers that actually put in effort. You can hardly have a clever passing game with Shola as your main striker.
As for Pardew and this No.10 master plan he has, it just doesnt work. He's never even done that role before, hes always at his best high up and out wide where he can cut in and have more space. It cant work when PArdew only uses it in a 4-4-1-1 because all we do is get Simpson or Krul to hoof it up to the most tightly packed area of the pitch... We're lucky to even get the ball in that area. Someone like Demba has to come back to win it, but then theres no-one ahead of him. I think the whole behind the striekrs role COULD work... but only in a sort of 4-3-1-2 playing behind both of them to give him more options and space. As people have already said, Ba loves to come back and link up play anyway.
Im going to be slightly biased of course, since Ben Arfa has been one of my favourite players since he came onto the scene and even more so that we somehow managed to sign him.
I don't get all this **** about HBA not tracking back, putting in a shift, etc. Pretty much, every time he's played, he's tracked back and put in a shift. He gives the ball away, sure, but that's the type of player he is. Obertan gives the ball away even more than him, and has no final product, yet Obertan still gets picked over HBA. He's our best option on the right and i'd be gutted if he went this summer. arguably the most technically gifted player we've had in recent years.
Pardew needs to give HBA more of a chance.
He's still only young, he needs more game time to develop, which he isn't getting at the moment.
The fact he's scored 3 goals proves how good he can be..
He's still only young, he needs more game time to develop, which he isn't getting at the moment.
The fact he's scored 3 goals proves how good he can be..
I agree HBA has generally worked quite hard the games he has played, with some exceptions.
The basic point, though, is that either Pardew is inexplicably overlooking a player who he openly states to be the most taelnted in the squad, or things happen in trainign which justify his decision.
The latter seems a lot more likely to me
Problem is, we all know this theory about how good he can be on his day, but you have to be honest however much you like him and admit that most of the time he plays he doesn't show it. He was tried in the No 10 role and it didn't work, he struggled and so did the team, I don't think he gets enough time on the ball when he plays there. He was tried on the wing and it worked ok until he had some v poor games against Blackburn and Brighton.
Much as I want to see him playing, we just seem a better TEAM without him at the moment. I think that will change as we sign more players who compliment him, fingers crossed. But the problem is, the reason we've done so well this season so far is playing as a unit and the work ethic - unfortunately Ben Arfa has struggled to fit in with this.
*Logs onto football manager... Ben Arfa... Re-train position to right winger...Increase defensive training workload to heavy...*
This whole management lark is easy.
This whole management lark is easy.
I don't understand, he's an amazing gifted football player. Just watch the highlights of him v Everton. What a performance, he was literally everywhere.
Not to mention how good his goal was.
We have a great team at the moment, really pleased with it. I don't want to sell anyone in the summer, as i want the team to gel further.
Not to mention how good his goal was.
We have a great team at the moment, really pleased with it. I don't want to sell anyone in the summer, as i want the team to gel further.
Ben Arfa and Obertan are both confidence players, but at opposite ends of the scale.
To manage them Pardew is probably thinking Obertan needs game time to build his confidence, Ben Arfa needs bench time to reduce his over confidence.
As has been said he doesn't fit in the squad in his perceived ideal position as a goal maker.
Ba is scoring so can't be dropped, Cisse cost £10m so can't sit on the bench. Ben Arfa has the passing range and skill of Cabaye, but he doesn't use it anywhere near as effectively as Cabaye to replace him.
To manage them Pardew is probably thinking Obertan needs game time to build his confidence, Ben Arfa needs bench time to reduce his over confidence.
As has been said he doesn't fit in the squad in his perceived ideal position as a goal maker.
Ba is scoring so can't be dropped, Cisse cost £10m so can't sit on the bench. Ben Arfa has the passing range and skill of Cabaye, but he doesn't use it anywhere near as effectively as Cabaye to replace him.
He could be, providing he passes rather than goes for the flair.
He attracts several players when he has the ball but 8/10 times he tries to beat them rather than pass to a free player.
I hope Ba and Cisse provide better movement off the ball to encourage the pass.
I'd like to think it's Best and Sholas inability to stay onside as the reason why Arfa does what he's been doing.
I don't buy the idea that he didn't work at number 10. The games when he was given a proper chance were Blackburn away in the CC - when he was invisible but had to play with Shola, Man City - where he was our most dangerous player on the pitch and gave Ba an assist he should have scored from, and Man Utd - where he was working hard all over the place and won us a penalty. OK, he wasn't great against Chelsea but then he scored against Bolton.
Against teams that he could have torn up in that role - Swansea, West Brom and Norwich, he was left on the bench.
Now the wing - He transformed the team for the good against QPR and during the second half at Fulham he was chasing everything, even balls other people lost, and was the only one putting in any effort even at 4-1 down. Brighton he was no good, but again the whole team was awful and he was playing with Sola and Best.
He's done more in a few cameos than Obertan's done all season, and this criticism of him is insane. Yes, he needs to learn when to give the ball to team mates, but to suggest that we've been losing because of him is plain wrong - when we've lost recently it's been down to the high line and Santon staying forward for too long when an attack breaks down.
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