Ben Turner For Wales?
- Thread starter Swamp
- Start date
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I fully concede that in many respects I am stuck in the past and my opinion on this is a million miles away from the modern ways of competitive sport.
For me, qualifying for a country should have one of the following qualifying criteria:
1. Born in the country you are going to represent.
2. One or both parents are from the country.
3. You moved to the country before your career started.
4. Be proud to represent your country regardless of success or failures.
The club game is now all about money, so isn't the international game the platform to retain some integrity in the game? For me, there is enough of a "success is all" culture in the club game, and trying to persuade players to play for a country that they have no real affiliation to just to get some short term success, and just to improve the profile of the player, is counter productive.
For me, I think we should be playing Welshmen in our team, and if they fall below the quality of other countries, then we should be adressing the problem at grass root level. We are a small country, and until we work on the development of the game in Wales, we're going to have to come to terms with where we are. What is really important is that all Welshmen get behing their national side and play their part in creating a proud, well supported country that gets behind it's own fellow countrymen and women.
Ooh! I went right off.
For me, qualifying for a country should have one of the following qualifying criteria:
1. Born in the country you are going to represent.
2. One or both parents are from the country.
3. You moved to the country before your career started.
4. Be proud to represent your country regardless of success or failures.
The club game is now all about money, so isn't the international game the platform to retain some integrity in the game? For me, there is enough of a "success is all" culture in the club game, and trying to persuade players to play for a country that they have no real affiliation to just to get some short term success, and just to improve the profile of the player, is counter productive.
For me, I think we should be playing Welshmen in our team, and if they fall below the quality of other countries, then we should be adressing the problem at grass root level. We are a small country, and until we work on the development of the game in Wales, we're going to have to come to terms with where we are. What is really important is that all Welshmen get behing their national side and play their part in creating a proud, well supported country that gets behind it's own fellow countrymen and women.
Ooh! I went right off.
Hi utj.
Good point, but is it the right sort of competition when Welshmen are forced to compete against players fro other countries just to get a place in their own national team? For me, it has all the potential to cause unrest and demotivate Welsh players.
In any case, do we want players who go public about demanding an invite? Surely this is not the way of Welshmen who would move heaven and earth to play for their country - the one's that haven't had their heads turned anyway.
I think Ben is playing well and he's a very welcome addition to my beloved Bluebirds and I'm sure he represents his club with pride. Judging by his comments, I don't think he could offer the same passion to playing for Wales.
Good luck this weekend.
i take your point clingo, but at the end of the day there is no problem with the youth set up of welsh players at the moment, we have a crop of players, many of whom are PL quality, and one or 2 future world beaters.
morison, williams are two 'equivalents' of turner, he would provide useful cover, turner is undoubtably a quality player at championship level, whether he is good enough to make the grade at international level is another question, but first of all he needs to be asked, basically in that interview he said 'i havent been asked so there is no question to answer'.
as for being disillusioned etc, how do england players feel when an italian leads them out, or before him a swede? it only becomes an issue when things arent going well and results are poor
morison, williams are two 'equivalents' of turner, he would provide useful cover, turner is undoubtably a quality player at championship level, whether he is good enough to make the grade at international level is another question, but first of all he needs to be asked, basically in that interview he said 'i havent been asked so there is no question to answer'.
as for being disillusioned etc, how do england players feel when an italian leads them out, or before him a swede? it only becomes an issue when things arent going well and results are poor
Ashley Williams has capitained Wales and he wasn't born in this great country of ours. I wouldn't swap him, would you?
Good morning Swamp.
Good points fella, though in some ways you further enhance my argument.
I agree totally that we have recently been developing some great players for the welsh squad, and in Turner's position, they would be selected ahead of him. Therefore, to my mind anyway, shouldn't the cover come from other young welsh players thus giving them something to aspire to and not have to get past imported players?
As for being led out; I think the subject of the managers is possibly a whole different argument. In any case, England are led out by English players.
Good points fella, though in some ways you further enhance my argument.
I agree totally that we have recently been developing some great players for the welsh squad, and in Turner's position, they would be selected ahead of him. Therefore, to my mind anyway, shouldn't the cover come from other young welsh players thus giving them something to aspire to and not have to get past imported players?
As for being led out; I think the subject of the managers is possibly a whole different argument. In any case, England are led out by English players.
Hi TUJ.
No, I wouldn't oust him now. What's done is done and I wouldn't want to deflate any player that's already in the picture. But, I personally would like to see the practice of importing players come to an end. Having said that, I don't know Ashley's background other than him being born in Staffordshire. Perhaps one of the other 3 criteria I mentioned would apply - I don't know.
Clingo, I read the above and I am not sure about the criteria but if they qualify under the criteria in place then as an individual they should be allowed to represent that country.
You alluded to Turners attitude because he went public demanding an invite to play for Wales, I really do not believe that is the case based on the BBC report. My apologies if I have miss-read your comment. I have read the article closely (the boredom of convalescence) and noted some points.
I believe Turner was guarded in his response to the interviewer as any hack will try and present a sensational slant to their story so they can get a lead story.
You alluded to Turners attitude because he went public demanding an invite to play for Wales, I really do not believe that is the case based on the BBC report. My apologies if I have miss-read your comment. I have read the article closely (the boredom of convalescence) and noted some points.
Opening line but not a quote just the reporters opinion.
Turner as quoted in the report.
I believe Turner was guarded in his response to the interviewer as any hack will try and present a sensational slant to their story so they can get a lead story.
Hiya Taff.
First of all, and most impotrtantly; "convalesence"?? I hope it is going well sir.
I agree with you Taff about being able to qualify under current rules - my point is that I personally don't agree with that. See, I told you I was stuck in the past. And of course, you are further correct about the press article and his guarded remarks. It's just for me, that I want to see passionate welshman come through the ranks and be able to wear the red shirt because they really, desperately want to.
I'm just an old romantic really.
Stay warm fella. Good to talk, as always.
First of all, and most impotrtantly; "convalesence"?? I hope it is going well sir.
I agree with you Taff about being able to qualify under current rules - my point is that I personally don't agree with that. See, I told you I was stuck in the past. And of course, you are further correct about the press article and his guarded remarks. It's just for me, that I want to see passionate welshman come through the ranks and be able to wear the red shirt because they really, desperately want to.
I'm just an old romantic really.
Stay warm fella. Good to talk, as always.
williams, apart from playing in swansea, is no different to turner apart from the fact his mother is welsh i believe, if the player himself makes himself available then i think the manager has to select him if he believes he merits a place in the squad, if a player qualifies for wales he deserves equal consideration.
taff, i agree that turner didnt say anything i wouldnt expect him to say, but as its a slow news day and there wasnt much else on the board yesterday i decided to put it out to everyone here, if a player says 'i'll have to wait and see if i get an invite from the welsh setup' that suggests to me that he would be willing to play for wales, if he had no interest he would say 'i'm english, i wont be playing for anyone other than england' , like the guy who qualified through residency to play for wales in rugby but categorically refused to play for wales because he is a proud englishman, well done to him for being open and honest, we only want commited players and if he felt he would be compromising his beliefs then i applaud him.
Thanks for the info Swamp. In that case, it makes Williams fit the criteria I originally posted. Yes, as I said to Taff, the current rules aplly and are correctly implemented. It's just I don't agree with them.
Just a question ( which nobody can answer with 100% confidence); if Turner ( or other players in his position) had any chance of playing for England, would he still even consider Wales?
In that case, it makes Williams fit the criteria I originally posted. Yes, as I said to Taff, the current rules aplly and are correctly implemented. It's just I don't agree with them. Just a question ( which nobody can answer with 100% confidence); if Turner ( or other players in his position) had any chance of playing for England, would he still even consider Wales?
Hi Clingo, sadly yes, just sent you a pm.
Totally agree with passionate Welshmen representing the flag and country. Absolutely nothing wrong in your opinion Clingo, from my side I am from a truly British family, all nationalities in my family immediate bloodline, Scots, English, Welsh with some Italian and Australian. Officially my sister is Australian, my brother and I are English as my father was in the RAF and travelled. However, our formative years were in St Athan then into Cardiff, we all are Welsh bred and consider ourselves Welsh. We arrived in Wales when we were 6 months, 1 and 2 years old.
I guess I have an opposing position to your good self as I am not Welsh born but would never consider (if I was ever good enough) opting for any country other than Wales. To be passed over because of the geographic location of your birth would seem unfair in my humble opinion.
Totally agree with passionate Welshmen representing the flag and country. Absolutely nothing wrong in your opinion Clingo, from my side I am from a truly British family, all nationalities in my family immediate bloodline, Scots, English, Welsh with some Italian and Australian. Officially my sister is Australian, my brother and I are English as my father was in the RAF and travelled. However, our formative years were in St Athan then into Cardiff, we all are Welsh bred and consider ourselves Welsh. We arrived in Wales when we were 6 months, 1 and 2 years old.
I guess I have an opposing position to your good self as I am not Welsh born but would never consider (if I was ever good enough) opting for any country other than Wales. To be passed over because of the geographic location of your birth would seem unfair in my humble opinion.
Don't believe Giggs was eligible for England, as per my earlier post. To play for England Schoolboys you only have to be going to school in England. You don't have to have any English qualification. Giggs moved to Salford from Cardiff as a kid when his dad switched from playing Union to League.
Hi again Taff. Since your formative years were spent in Wales, you'd qualify under No3 in my criteria. So our opinions are not as opposing as you think. People who come to Wales and spend their childhoods as Welsh men and women, do of course have the right to play for Wales. Welshness is a state of mind and heart, and your mind and heart are as welsh as mine. If you look back at my preferred criteria, you'd see that I don't advocate geography of birth being the only way in. So once again, we seem to be a lot closer in our opinions than you may think. I certainly do not question anyone about their welshness regardless of where they were born.
I think at the end of the day, my arguments are based on how I would like to see international teams be truly representative and not just a vehicle for some to aquire an international career that they may not get elsewhere.
Have no fear mate, you're Welshness is clear for all to see, and I'll give Coleman the heads up about you. <wink>
Thanks for the pm - I have responded.
I think at the end of the day, my arguments are based on how I would like to see international teams be truly representative and not just a vehicle for some to aquire an international career that they may not get elsewhere.
Have no fear mate, you're Welshness is clear for all to see, and I'll give Coleman the heads up about you. <wink>
Thanks for the pm - I have responded.