Election 2024

[PINKIE]

The problem is you're just taking a few countries where it hasn't worked and saying "see, all these countries have copy and paste electoral systems and they don't work"

But, none of those countries have the same system, none of them have the system being proposed for the UK. So it's just noise.

The problem with the Tory/Lib coalition is this country is not at all designed for coalition governments and therefore they principally do not work, if the Liberals in anyway disagreed with the Tories and pulled out of a vote, they would be paralyzing parliament.

In Scandinavia, you agree coalitions BEFORE an election and the second largest parties leader takes the role of minister of finance, the direct right hand of the PM. It's not some topsy turvy world, it's something that happens all over the place. If you don't want a direct coalition, you can have voting blocs. Again, this happens all the time.

The way you stop extremist parties is a simple % threshold.

The only other option is parties like the Lib Dems, Reform, Greens are forced to shut down and get behind two of the big tents and we go the way of America, two party system with no hangers on.

You asked me for some examples, so I gave you some lol

And we've had it in the UK and it was a Vanilla shambles

I hear what you're saying though, and I agree there needs to be a threshold and a pre agreed structure

That way it stops a scenario where Labour lose just enough seats to form a Govt and Farage and Lowe have a renewed bromance and do a deal with Kemi to **** us all in the backsides for another 4 years.

Anyway I'd give this response more detail, but the footie is about to start.

 

[Welshie]

You asked me for some examples, so I gave you some lol

And we've had it in the UK and it was a Vanilla shambles

I hear what you're saying though, and I agree there needs to be a threshold and a pre agreed structure

That way it stops a scenario where Labour lose just enough seats to form a Govt and Farage and Lowe have a renewed bromance and do a deal with Kemi to **** us all in the backsides for another 4 years.

Anyway I'd give this response more detail, but the footie is about to start.

huh?

Bro you're all over the place ffs

 

[PINKIE]

huh?

Bro you're all over the place ffs

Don't be silly

The Tory/Lib coalition was a massive shade of beige, with both sides compromising their core principles.

It was a govt of compromises which led to the Libs betraying their supporters by backtracking on tuition fees and Tories weren't happy because the Libs kept thwarting their spending cuts plans

Ironically, speaking of electoral reform the Libs were forced to compromise on AV which ended up with a massive no vote.

Towards the end of that Govt it just became open warfare between the two parties.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Clegg should have gone with Labour. Achieved absolutely **** all in government and the Libs only have a serious number of seats now because Toby and Poppy in towns with a Gail’s couldn’t bring themselves to vote Tory again.

 

[PINKIE]

Clegg should have gone with Labour. Achieved absolutely **** all in government and the Libs only have a serious number of seats now because Toby and Poppy in towns with a Gail’s couldn’t bring themselves to vote Tory again.

Clegg jumping into bed with the Tories was like Angela Rayner going on a date with Tommy Robinson.

Doomed to fail

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Clegg jumping into bed with the Tories was like Angela Rayner going on a date with Tommy Robinson.

Doomed to fail

Yet he’s gone on to do remarkably well in cushy gigs. Amazing really.

 

[PINKIE]

Yet he’s gone on to do remarkably well in cushy gigs. Amazing really.

A tear jerking rags to riches story

 

[Welshie]

Don't be silly

The Tory/Lib coalition was a massive shade of beige, with both sides compromising their core principles.

It was a govt of compromises which led to the Libs betraying their supporters by backtracking on tuition fees and Tories weren't happy because the Libs kept thwarting their spending cuts plans

Ironically, speaking of electoral reform the Libs were forced to compromise on AV which ended up with a massive no vote.

Towards the end of that Govt it just became open warfare between the two parties.

Yeah, what the **** has this got to do with anything related to PR?

 

[PINKIE]

Yeah, what the **** has this got to do with anything related to PR?

Because PR leads to coalition govts.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Because PR leads to coalition govts.

We’re likely to have a coalition anyway. Given so many people will have to tactically vote or just dislike all the options I’d like STV.

 

[Libby]

Because PR leads to coalition govts.

You think the current system works?

No chance anyone gets a majority next time anyway.

 

[PINKIE]

We’re likely to have a coalition anyway. Given so many people will have to tactically vote or just dislike all the options I’d like STV.

Labour would have to lose a massive majority at the next GE for that to happen, but the direction of travel at the moment could well see a hung parliament. What I do agree with Welshie on is that you don't want to see a hung parliament then tendered out to whoever can do a deal to form a Govt, as that could lead to a scenario where Labour get the biggest share of the vote, but not enough seats in FPTP to form a govt, and then the bastard demented love child of a Farage, Lowe, Badenoch coalition form a Govt.

I think they used STV in Scottish local elections ? It seems like a fair way of making every vote hold weight, in a system where you have to ultimately choose a winner. Better that its based on actual voting merit, rather than what backroom deals can be done.

 

[PINKIE]

You think the current system works?

No chance anyone gets a majority next time anyway.

No, I don't think it works. I mean it does if you get a clear majority, but like you say I think we're heading for a scenario where there is no majority next time, so you're looking at coalition again.

I'm up for electoral reform, I just don't think PR is the answer, for the reasons I've mentioned. It's more likely to create coalition.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Labour would have to lose a massive majority at the next GE for that to happen, but the direction of travel at the moment could well see a hung parliament. What I do agree with Welshie on is that you don't want to see a hung parliament then tendered out to whoever can do a deal to form a Govt, as that could lead to a scenario where Labour get the biggest share of the vote, but not enough seats in FPTP to form a govt, and then the bastard demented love child of a Farage, Lowe, Badenoch coalition form a Govt.

I think they used STV in Scottish local elections ? It seems like a fair way of making every vote hold weight, in a system where you have to ultimately choose a winner. Better that its based on actual voting merit, rather than what backroom deals can be done.

We’re going to have seats split three and even four ways with a winner on 30% of the vote. It’s silly to have a situation where the Greens sneak in when Reform and the Tories have nearly double their votes or the opposite where one of the right wing parties sneak through because some pleb Lib Dem takes 5% and both Green and Labour finish narrowly behind the winner.

If any party tries to run as a minority it’ll fail quickly so it’ll have to be either Tories & Reform or some nonsense Lab/Lib/SNP/Plaid combo offering a load of concessions to get the nationalist melts on board and they’ll all fall out anyway.

 

[PINKIE]

We’re going to have seats split three and even four ways with a winner on 30% of the vote. It’s silly to have a situation where the Greens sneak in when Reform and the Tories have nearly double their votes or the opposite where one of the right wing parties sneak through because some pleb Lib Dem takes 5% and both Green and Labour finish narrowly behind the winner.

If any party tries to run as a minority it’ll fail quickly so it’ll have to be either Tories & Reform or some nonsense Lab/Lib/SNP/Plaid combo offering a load of concessions to get the nationalist melts on board and they’ll all fall out anyway.

Yeah, this is exactly the type of scenario that I'm talking about.

People vote for stupid **** anyway that goes against their own interests, we saw that with Brexit and we're seeing it with Reform.

At that point, I'd be up for a benevolent dictatorship like they had in Singapore

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Yeah, this is exactly the type of scenario that I'm talking about.

People vote for stupid **** anyway that goes against their own interests, we saw that with Brexit and we're seeing it with Reform.

At that point, I'd be up for a benevolent dictatorship like they had in Singapore

I’ll be voting for Your Party with my second vote going to my local Hamas independent unless Change UK are still going. That was a weird time. I once thought Chukka Umunna was going to be our Obama.

 

[PINKIE]

I’ll be voting for Your Party with my second vote going to my local Hamas independent unless Change UK are still going. That was a weird time. I once thought Chukka Umunna was going to be our Obama.

I think the parties just need some better names

Change, your, reform, restore

It’s all a bit boring and I’m sure they’d have better success with something a bit more interesting

Granted, the Monster Raving Loony party haven’t been able to form a govt yet, but their time is coming…

 

[Welshie]

Because PR leads to coalition govts.

You're just running on the premise that coalitions are fundamentally flawed and wrong and the system should avoid them.

It's a blinkered view of things.

What's the point in you voting for Greens for example, its essentially a waste of effort going down to the polling office, with their current numbers they're at best going to get a handful of MPs

But at the same time you wouldn't want them near the government as its a dreaded coalition.

What's the point?

 

[Welshie]

Labour would have to lose a massive majority at the next GE for that to happen, but the direction of travel at the moment could well see a hung parliament. What I do agree with Welshie on is that you don't want to see a hung parliament then tendered out to whoever can do a deal to form a Govt, as that could lead to a scenario where Labour get the biggest share of the vote, but not enough seats in FPTP to form a govt, and then the bastard demented love child of a Farage, Lowe, Badenoch coalition form a Govt.

I think they used STV in Scottish local elections ? It seems like a fair way of making every vote hold weight, in a system where you have to ultimately choose a winner. Better that its based on actual voting merit, rather than what backroom deals can be done.

Scotland uses AMS, it keeps the current constituency MPs then breaks down the vote share per region and dishes out a fair number of seats depending. It's PR.

It's the voting system being proposed to be made UK wide.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Scotland uses AMS, it keeps the current constituency MPs then breaks down the vote share per region and dishes out a fair number of seats depending. It's PR.

It's the voting system being proposed to be made UK wide.

Are the extras not allocated to a particular place then?