Match Day Thread Play Off Final. Hull City v Boro

[Vern]

I think you're probably right here. Sort of seems like it was a funny story that wasn't that serious at first but it's grown legs and been taken more and more seriously to the point that it's now almost taboo to question whether it's really that big a deal. But as you say, the sporting advantage here is relatively minor compared to diving for a penalty.

I am not sure the advantage is minor.
Potentially knowing formations being played or a starting eleven are not minor.
Plus filming of corner or free kick routines are more than minor. Free kicks on the edge of the box will have been worked on and knowing the liklehood who will take the fee kick by the set up is significant in my view.

 

[SW3 Chelsea Tiger]

I think you're probably right here. Sort of seems like it was a funny story that wasn't that serious at first but it's grown legs and been taken more and more seriously to the point that it's now almost taboo to question whether it's really that big a deal. But as you say, the sporting advantage here is relatively minor compared to diving for a penalty.

Regardless of minor, it’s against the rules…kick the ****s out

 

[Erik]

The Football League's inactivity before the 2nd leg has come back to bite them in the arse.

If we lose to Southampton and the decision were then made to prevent Southampton from being promoted, all three of the other clubs would have an argument that they had been unfairly penalised. In Millwall's case, being the third best team in the division and yet seeing either City or Boro go up at their expense would raise the question of why other play-off losers should be considered preferable. Might we even see the Premier League come to an agreement that, as City and Boro would both have been defeated by Southampton, only two clubs be relegated to the Championship? This would be a convenient way of keeping West Ham in the top-flight. But then, City's argument would be that they had lost to an opponent who had gained an unfair advantage in their semi-final...

What a ****show

 

[bradymk2]

The Football League's inactivity before the 2nd leg has come back to bite them in the arse.

If we lose to Southampton and the decision were then made to prevent Southampton from being promoted, all three of the other clubs would have an argument that they had been unfairly penalised. In Millwall's case, being the third best team in the division and yet seeing either City or Boro go up at their expense would raise the question of why other play-off losers should be considered preferable. Might we even see the Premier League come to an agreement that, as City and Boro would both have been defeated by Southampton, only two clubs be relegated to the Championship? This would be a convenient way of keeping West Ham in the top-flight. But then, City's argument would be that they had lost to an opponent who had gained an unfair advantage in their semi-final...

What a ****show

Efl will be praying we win

 

[tigermaul]

The Football League's inactivity before the 2nd leg has come back to bite them in the arse.

If we lose to Southampton and the decision were then made to prevent Southampton from being promoted, all three of the other clubs would have an argument that they had been unfairly penalised. In Millwall's case, being the third best team in the division and yet seeing either City or Boro go up at their expense would raise the question of why other play-off losers should be considered preferable. Might we even see the Premier League come to an agreement that, as City and Boro would both have been defeated by Southampton, only two clubs be relegated to the Championship? This would be a convenient way of keeping West Ham in the top-flight. But then, City's argument would be that they had lost to an opponent who had gained an unfair advantage in their semi-final...

What a ****show

In this circumstance, we would clearly be promoted as next in line after cheats thrown out.

 

[bradymk2]

Regardless of minor, it’s against the rules…kick the ****s out

Boros manager said it best

The one way a manager/coach can try and win
Is by doing something tactically different/diff lineup/formation/corner routines etc etc
And they can spend hours upon hours on it

If someone then films all their efforts
It can really ****ing sting

So whether boro were just doing sessions of star jumps all week in training, southampton blatantly intended to gain any sort of insight and its blatant cheating and against the results

Harsh punishment to make anyone else think twice is the only way

Leeds got off lightly
Cant happen again

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

I think you're probably right here. Sort of seems like it was a funny story that wasn't that serious at first but it's grown legs and been taken more and more seriously to the point that it's now almost taboo to question whether it's really that big a deal. But as you say, the sporting advantage here is relatively minor compared to diving for a penalty.

Cheating that could result in expulsion from a league or a competition, in my eyes, is match fixing, bribing an official, or fielding an illegible player(s), not filming a training session on a phone.

 

[HullCityInEurope]

Efl will be praying we win

The cynic in me thinks VAR might be used to engineer the result they want. Or I hope so anyway

 

[StCloudTiger]

The only fair way to resolve this would be for Boro to replay Southampton at 2pm on the 23rd, and the winner stays on to play us

 

[SW3 Chelsea Tiger]

The only fair way to resolve this would be for Boro to replay Southampton at 2pm on the 23rd, and the winner stays on to play us

Good idea….lets prey it goes to ET & pens

 

[tigermaul]

Boros manager said it best

The one way a manager/coach can try and win
Is by doing something tactically different/diff lineup/formation/corner routines etc etc
And they can spend hours upon hours on it

If someone then films all their efforts
It can really ****ing sting

So whether boro were just doing sessions of star jumps all week in training, southampton blatantly intended to gain any sort of insight and its blatant cheating and against the results

Harsh punishment to make anyone else think twice is the only way

Leeds got off lightly
Cant happen again

Absolutely right. These pundits like Danny Mills dismissing it as ‘minor’ miss the point. The Swindon 25/26 precedent is the best comparison. They were expelled for ACCIDENTALLY playing two unregistered players. Southampton have DELIBERATELY flouted the rules, and now we know they’ve done it on more than one occasion. Hopefully they give them a really draconian punishment in view of the repeated breaches of the rules - eg relegation to League One, huge fine, and being chucked out of play-off final. Then Southampton appeal the punishment, but make it clear they accept the fine and losing their play-off spot. That leaves room for wiggle room and compromise (ie the relegation side of things gets overturned).

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

Boros manager said it best

The one way a manager/coach can try and win
Is by doing something tactically different/diff lineup/formation/corner routines etc etc
And they can spend hours upon hours on it

If someone then films all their efforts
It can really ****ing sting

So whether boro were just doing sessions of star jumps all week in training, southampton blatantly intended to gain any sort of insight and its blatant cheating and against the results

Harsh punishment to make anyone else think twice is the only way

Leeds got off lightly
Cant happen again

Someone should remind the Boro manager that the only way a manager or coach can win is to score one more goal than the opposition, not doing something 'tactically different'.

 

[bradymk2]

Absolutely right. These pundits like Danny Mills dismissing it as ‘minor’ miss the point. The Swindon 25/26 precedent is the best comparison. They were expelled for ACCIDENTALLY playing two unregistered players. Southampton have DELIBERATELY flouted the rules, and now we know they’ve done it on more than one occasion. Hopefully they give them a really draconian punishment in view of the repeated breaches of the rules - eg relegation to League One, huge fine, and being chucked out of play-off final. Then Southampton appeal the punishment, but make it clear they accept the fine and losing their play-off spot. That leaves room for wiggle room and compromise (ie the relegation side of things gets overturned).

If they hadnt have been caught

Theyd have also 100% done it to us before the final too

 

[tigermaul]

Cheating in my eyes is match fixing, bribing an official, or fielding an illegible players, not filming a training session on a phone.

Yes but not in the letter of the law, or rather EFL rules, which is what counts.

 

[bradymk2]

Someone should remind the Boro manager that the only way a manager or coach can win is to score one more goal than the opposition, not doing something 'tactically different'.

ah right
Trumptons spoke

Lets forget it and southampton did no wrong

Cheating is only if you accept a bribe to lose

Why even employ coaches
Just score lol

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

I’ve seen a lot of Boro supporters on X and their forum say ‘just send Hull up at this point’.

I imagine a lot of them, Steve Gibson included, would be somewhat miffed and disappointed that they couldn’t take Southampton’s place but I think they’d get over it a lot quickly than if Southampton were allowed to play in the final. If that happened, Boro definitely should get something out of it and Southampton need another sporting sanction for next season.

There’s a fair few of us saying that as well ( if we get kicked out ) , but it’s down to the independent panel .

 

[highpeak tiger]

Cheating in my eyes is match fixing, bribing an official, or fielding an illegible players, not filming a training session on a phone.

Swindon Town absolutely hammered by being demoted two divisions in June 1990 as punishment for financial irregularities. Just ten days after winning the Second Division play-off final to earn promotion to the First Division, the club admitted to 36 breaches of Football League rules, primarily involving illegal payments to players." Even if the EFL think it's trivial, which I don't think they will, it is specifically against the current rules. Has it happened more than once? They can't ignore it. Southampton have admitted it and so must be punished. I doubt that the punishment will be minor but it's possible the EFL are more bothered about their own income and avoiding litigation. As always, time will tell.

 

[Kalman II]

Cheating that could result in expulsion from a league or a competition, in my eyes, is match fixing, bribing an official, or fielding an illegible player(s), not filming a training session on a phone.

What if the ineligible player is crap and makes an error during the game? The team fielding an ineligible player hasn’t gained an advantage using that logic.

It doesn’t really matter if Southampton gained a small, large or no sporting advantage at all. They cheated with the intention of gaining a sporting advantage and that’s all that matters. If I rob a bank and only come away with £500 instead of £500,000, I’m still a thief and criminal.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

What if the ineligible player is crap and makes an error during the game? The team fielding an ineligible player hasn’t gained an advantage using that logic.

It doesn’t really matter if Southampton gained a small, large or no sporting advantage at all. They cheated with the intention of gaining a sporting advantage and that’s all that matters. If I rob a bank and only come away with £500 instead of £500,000, I’m still a thief and criminal.

Fair comment . In fact spot on .

All I would say is that afaik , although we have said we won’t contest the claim , is that in fact the same as admitting guilt ?

Quite possibly yes , but is there some weird loophole that lawyers get involved with ?

I don’t know .

 

[philhul]

Swindon Town absolutely hammered by being demoted two divisions in June 1990 as punishment for financial irregularities. Just ten days after winning the Second Division play-off final to earn promotion to the First Division, the club admitted to 36 breaches of Football League rules, primarily involving illegal payments to players." Even if the EFL think it's trivial, which I don't think they will, it is specifically against the current rules. Has it happened more than once? They can't ignore it. Southampton have admitted it and so must be punished. I doubt that the punishment will be minor but it's possible the EFL are more bothered about their own income and avoiding litigation. As always, time will tell.

The more recent Swindon issue is more to the point