I agree but will all those rumours muddy the waters a bit whilst they are making their judgement. It shouldn’t do but you never know
Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL
- Thread starter tomw24
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Naively maybe, but if we were doing before other matches how can it be proven if the clubs didn’t complain at the time?
Two potential ways I can think of:
-Clubs have CCTV of this bloke at their training ground within 72 hours of us playing them. This Boro case means they know who to look for.
- The whistleblower has a paper trail that it was an established tactic of ours when he worked here.
The second seems more likely of the two to me as I can't imagine football clubs keep CCTV very long.
Just because they’ve been in the championship longer than we have they think they are special and entitled.
Tickets on sale today
It probably can, but it would be wrong. As it often is about most things.
It probably can, but it would be wrong. As it often is about most things.
Yeah, I think the CCTV thing is likely to collapse for that reason for a lot of the clubs. Boro have absolutely shared the CCTV stills and the photo (the same one that appeared in the Daily Mail) round the other clubs and done a 'has anyone seen this man?' type thing too, though
Point two is the one that is more likely, if he had an acrimonious departure from the club and kept evidence against someone up the chain
They wouldn't be able to tell you the colour of her eyes.
I think any bans will come from what we are actually found guilty of doing. There are two issues under review. Obviously the first is the breach for watching a training session within 72 hours of the game, which seems irrefutable. The second is whether this was not an isolated incident and compelling evidence can be provided to prove Saints did this regularly throughout the season. The latter is more serious and carries the greatest jeopardy.
In the case of the former, and Saints admit to the charge, Saints should make the point that the breach had little material impact to the fixtures because little or no data that could be obtained from what was an open training session that could be viewed by any member of the Public. Saints should agrue that if Boro were intending to undertake specific tactical training for the Saints fixture, these would have taken place behind closed doors. If asked what Saints were looking to achieve by observing the training session, Saints could.respond that they were watching who was training to assess who might be playing, as nothing else would surely have been available to members of the Public (effectively suggesting tactical training would take place behind closed doors, as would any club with an ounce of intelligence).
In essence, the Saints position should be we are guilty and accept the punishment that would lprobably be a fine and possibly a points deduction the next season Saints are in the Championship. Remember, the punishment has to fit the crime committed, and, frankly, l think to impose more would put the EPL at risk of this being overturned on appeal.
If it can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt that Saints did this throughout the season, there are indeed grounds for removing us from the playoffs as it could be argued we have earned our place in the playoffs by unfair advantage and the proverbial book can be thrown at us.
To summarise, it will be very hard to justify our removal from the playoffs (either directly or by awarding a 3-0 first leg to Boro) as there is neither applicable precedent nor weight of evidence we gained a significant advantage from the incident. If guilty of the latter, l believe the EPL have a valid case to consider our removal from the playoffs. I think the EPL would be relieved if no such compelling evidence is available because expelling Saints will be a high risk strategy.
I may be naive, but although I think spying is probably more common than a one off, the fact that the Boro ground is so exposed and open is the reason we did it there. For that reason, other grounds CCTV would only cover the immediate perimeters so if we viewed from public land their CCTV wouldn't cover it if you see what I mean. Or we didn't bother as you cant see anything
The utmost good faith rule is so dumb and ambiguous. It could be argued that the witch hunt with lies about what actually happened, whipping up this media frenzy against us to try and gain an advantage in the semis and to try and influence the case against us, isn't acting in the utmost good faith by Boro. That's independent of us doing wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.
Given all the details (how far away he was, the fact he only has a phone etc) the first thing that springs to mind for me is maybe we were trying to work out what they'd do in a penalty shoot out. I'm sure we have scouting info on their main 2 or 3 penalty takers but maybe we wanted to figure out what the rest of them would do.
Think the less considered thing we may need to prepare for is the prospect that Tonda might get banned for the final?
(and if we fail to go up, a chunk of next season).
(and if we fail to go up, a chunk of next season).
I agree with your post. Saints have accepted the charge so, as you say, that part is irrefutable.
The sentence will be determined by a number of factors such as if it's proven to have happened before. But also how much advantage we would have gained that day considering the pretty basic technology used would I think play a part. Not in, as some have said "it was only a smart phone, why are they bothering" because he could have been making stick men drawings and we would still be guilty. But does what's been gathered give us a huge amount of information on Boro?
If we had listening devices, high quality video recording ,telephoto equipment etc. or even being much closer to the training, then I would think that would be seen as cheating specifically for a playoff match and could be a point of argument as to whether we should be booted out of the playoffs. We didn't have that equipment and I'm hoping that will be in our favour.
Middlesbrough FC – Club Statement
Middlesbrough FC notes the decision of the Disciplinary Commission not to permit the club to intervene in the proceedings brought by the EFL against Southampton FC.
The club regrets that outcome given we are directly affected by the matters under consideration and hold relevant factual evidence as to the events in question and their competitive impact.
The conduct at issue, namely the observation and recording of our training session ahead of a fixture of such significance, goes to the heart of sporting integrity and fair competition. In these circumstances, the only appropriate response is a sporting sanction which would prevent Southampton FC from participating in the EFL Championship play-off final.
We remain hopeful that the EFL, as regulator, will pursue such a sanction before the Disciplinary Commission in order to protect the integrity of the game, safeguard all member clubs, and deter any attempt in the future to obtain an unfair and unlawful advantage in pursuit of promotion to the Premier League.
The club reserves all its legal rights.
Middlesbrough FC notes the decision of the Disciplinary Commission not to permit the club to intervene in the proceedings brought by the EFL against Southampton FC.
The club regrets that outcome given we are directly affected by the matters under consideration and hold relevant factual evidence as to the events in question and their competitive impact.
The conduct at issue, namely the observation and recording of our training session ahead of a fixture of such significance, goes to the heart of sporting integrity and fair competition. In these circumstances, the only appropriate response is a sporting sanction which would prevent Southampton FC from participating in the EFL Championship play-off final.
We remain hopeful that the EFL, as regulator, will pursue such a sanction before the Disciplinary Commission in order to protect the integrity of the game, safeguard all member clubs, and deter any attempt in the future to obtain an unfair and unlawful advantage in pursuit of promotion to the Premier League.
The club reserves all its legal rights.
**** off boro, bunch of ****ing ****ing ****s 