Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL

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Indeed. The TV money has gone up hugely since 2007 so Boro will want far more than that.
Oh no you misunderstand. I’m saying they should be expecting less not more. Since Sheffield United were victim of an offence that took place over a whole season and were actually relegated from the higher division. Not merely denied a chance to get promoted in a scenario where they still had to win a two legged tie and a final. Far more contingencies

And it’s far harder to prove we gained from what we did compared to the players they illegally signed
 
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I get the feeling we are going to be made an example of and get kicked out.

But what I do hope, is that Boro aren’t given a reprieve and Hull are automatically promoted <laugh>

Do think the whole thing is ridiculous and has been blown out of proportion
It’s interesting - it seems the longer this goes on the more both Saints and Boro fans think this will go against their respective sides
 
I get the feeling we are going to be made an example of and get kicked out.

But what I do hope, is that Boro aren’t given a reprieve and Hull are automatically promoted <laugh>

Do think the whole thing is ridiculous and has been blown out of proportion

That’s my fear .

But , whatever punishment is given , the Panel / EFL must be very careful because they will be setting a precedent, this has never occurred since Leeds financial penalty .

Can’t believe the EFL introduced a rule without setting out the relevant punishments
 
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I get the feeling we are going to be made an example of and get kicked out.

But what I do hope, is that Boro aren’t given a reprieve and Hull are automatically promoted <laugh>

Do think the whole thing is ridiculous and has been blown out of proportion
I’m starting to get the same feeling. I don’t think this is a one of and the biggest mistake young Mr Salt has made was using his card to buy a coffee at the hotel next to Boro’s training ground.
This can now be used to see if it matches up to hotels near to training grounds of other teams.
We will then be made an example of by the EFL as we’re not Manchester City, Chelsea etc.
Thou this will make a mockery of the play offs, especially if the losers Middlesboro get reinstated for the final, which I believe will happen. If they win, Hull could then claim they shouldn’t have been in the final etc etc.
Really don’t understand why they didn’t delay the game until Friday, Saturday this week so that a decision could be made before? I for one would expect our fans to be making claims against the EFL for expenses of both the legs of the semi finals, as they were played under false protences.
Could be a complete legal mess.
 
It’s interesting - it seems the longer this goes on the more both Saints and Boro fans think this will go against their respective sides
I think that the stakes have become really high and the views entrenched. However, when you consider that we are talking about a bloke with a mobile phone in public land adjacent the training ground and not in it, 'Boro's position seems ridiculous. We cheated but with no benefit. I think we should take a fine that is proportional but not an punishment which is high speculative and well outside the parameters of probability, If Saints genuinely wanted to spy, it would have been far more "specialist" that a bloke with his mobile who could have been a fan from any club. It is complete rubbish. The photo this evening just makes me think that Gibson is on a fishing expedition.
 
Oh no you misunderstand. I’m saying they should be expecting less not more. Since Sheffield United were victim of an offence that took place over a whole season and were actually relegated from the higher division. Not merely denied a chance to get promoted in a scenario where they still had to win a two legged tie and a final. Far more contingencies

And it’s far harder to prove we gained from what we did compared to the players they illegally signed
I was mainly winding you up. But the value of relegation/promotion is much higher now than it was in 2007 so £20m is obviously a lower proportion of that value. They say winning the playoff final is worth £200m so if Boro take separate legal action (which seems possible) they may well start by claiming they want £200m from us. Most of these sort of cases get settled out of court because neither side wants to take the risk of losing so £20m may not be as ridiculous as it sounds.
 
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That’s my fear .

But , whatever punishment is given , the Panel / EFL must be very careful because they will be setting a precedent, this has never occurred since Leeds financial penalty .

Can’t believe the EFL introduced a rule without setting out the relevant punishments
The fact that there is no precedent also works to our favour. The EFL should have catered for this,
 
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I’m starting to get the same feeling. I don’t think this is a one of and the biggest mistake young Mr Salt has made was using his card to buy a coffee at the hotel next to Boro’s training ground.
This can now be used to see if it matches up to hotels near to training grounds of other teams.
We will then be made an example of by the EFL as we’re not Manchester City, Chelsea etc.
Thou this will make a mockery of the play offs, especially if the losers Middlesboro get reinstated for the final, which I believe will happen. If they win, Hull could then claim they shouldn’t have been in the final etc etc.
Really don’t understand why they didn’t delay the game until Friday, Saturday this week so that a decision could be made before? I for one would expect our fans to be making claims against the EFL for expenses of both the legs of the semi finals, as they were played under false protences.
Could be a complete legal mess.

They can't just contact random businesses and say "can you confirm if this person was here". Literally not even remotely legal.

We ain't getting chucked out. Book it.
 
They can't just contact random businesses and say "can you confirm if this person was here". Literally not even remotely legal.

We ain't getting chucked out. Book it.
But the other clubs could contact the EFL and advise that Mr salt was at their training grounds. As this appears not to have been the case, I thinl this is a one off.
 
They can't just contact random businesses and say "can you confirm if this person was here". Literally not even remotely legal.

We ain't getting chucked out. Book it.
Yeah. That can most definitely can’t occur. Also, if he did buy a coffee, then he’s certainly not trespassing as he purchased goods from the property.

I don’t believe any of the rumours about other clubs either. A lot of training grounds are pretty private and this doesn’t come across as some sophisticated operation.
 
I think that the stakes have become really high and the views entrenched. However, when you consider that we are talking about a bloke with a mobile phone in public land adjacent the training ground and not in it, 'Boro's position seems ridiculous. We cheated but with no benefit. I think we should take a fine that is proportional but not an punishment which is high speculative and well outside the parameters of probability, If Saints genuinely wanted to spy, it would have been far more "specialist" that a bloke with his mobile who could have been a fan from any club. It is complete rubbish. The photo this evening just makes me think that Gibson is on a fishing expedition.

The public land thing is irrelevant. And you can't say for sure we got no benefit.
 
Yeah. That can most definitely can’t occur. Also, if he did buy a coffee, then he’s certainly trespassing as he purchased goods from the property.

I don’t believe any of the rumours about other clubs either. A lot of training grounds are pretty private and this doesn’t come across as some sophisticated operation.

Trespass is a separate issue. It is a Tort and not a crime.
 
They can't just contact random businesses and say "can you confirm if this person was here". Literally not even remotely legal.

We ain't getting chucked out. Book it.
He's also an intern. Has he actually got the money to pay for regular hotel stays out of his own pocket?
 
They can't just contact random businesses and say "can you confirm if this person was here". Literally not even remotely legal.

We ain't getting chucked out. Book it.
Hope you’re right Libby, just have this feeling that Boro with the help of journalists have whipped up a right frenzy on this. Has been made to look like the worse cheating scandal ever in football ( which we all know isn’t) but that’s the way it feels. Amazing we’re getting the like of fat corden and numerous ex footballers also saying worse thing ever to happen, a real witch hunt has been conducted.
 
They can't just contact random businesses and say "can you confirm if this person was here". Literally not even remotely legal.

We ain't getting chucked out. Book it.

About to say the same. How can they contact random coffee shops and hotels with did a Mr Salt use his card at your place. For a start those records may not be there - contactless transactions are more like cash so not a traditional footprint and the legal implications are huge. Just not going to happen. The EFL would have no jurisdiction, they would need Police warrants etc.
 
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I’m starting to get the same feeling. I don’t think this is a one of and the biggest mistake young Mr Salt has made was using his card to buy a coffee at the hotel next to Boro’s training ground.
This can now be used to see if it matches up to hotels near to training grounds of other teams.
We will then be made an example of by the EFL as we’re not Manchester City, Chelsea etc.
Thou this will make a mockery of the play offs, especially if the losers Middlesboro get reinstated for the final, which I believe will happen. If they win, Hull could then claim they shouldn’t have been in the final etc etc.
Really don’t understand why they didn’t delay the game until Friday, Saturday this week so that a decision could be made before? I for one would expect our fans to be making claims against the EFL for expenses of both the legs of the semi finals, as they were played under false protences.
Could be a complete legal mess.
I don’t think that level of digging into his transactions can be made when it’s not a legal case. But I could be wrong
 
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I was mainly winding you up. But the value of relegation/promotion is much higher now than it was in 2007 so £20m is obviously a lower proportion of that value. They say winning the playoff final is worth £200m so if Boro take separate legal action (which seems possible) they may well start by claiming they want £200m from us. Most of these sort of cases get settled out of court because neither side wants to take the risk of losing so £20m may not be as ridiculous as it sounds.
Good job then because it sort of worked :-)
 
The public land thing is irrelevant. And you can't say for sure we got no benefit.

Libby

I have to disagree.

To be successful, Boro would need to prove that there was a chain of causation of events. Gibson would need to prove that we benefitted from spying. It would be really difficult to prove that the spy had any impact in beating them over two legs. He is clutching at straws. The issue is that we did nt adhere to the spirit of the EFL and it is up to the EPL and perhaps their members to have a say, I just feel that the evidence appears to be circumstantial at best.

There are plenty of other reasons why Boro did not get to the final. As I said previously, they should pursue Wolves for poaching Edwardes.

What we did was clearly wrong but it was also amateur and incompetent.
 
I think that the stakes have become really high and the views entrenched. However, when you consider that we are talking about a bloke with a mobile phone in public land adjacent the training ground and not in it, 'Boro's position seems ridiculous. We cheated but with no benefit. I think we should take a fine that is proportional but not an punishment which is high speculative and well outside the parameters of probability, If Saints genuinely wanted to spy, it would have been far more "specialist" that a bloke with his mobile who could have been a fan from any club. It is complete rubbish. The photo this evening just makes me think that Gibson is on a fishing expedition.
Saw someone else comment on the other forum - if this was going Boro’s way then why are they leaking so much to the press? Especially the picture that actually contradicts their earlier claims. It doesn’t show we aren’t guilty but it contradicts their narrative