Match Day Thread Hull City v Norwich

[TwoWrights]

So where‘s everyone going for breakfast on Saturday?

I might go to Hull Way Cafe on Holderness Road, full English of course.


The views expressed in this post are 67% recycled.

 

[TigerMarv]

Against my better judgement ..... here goes ....you are wrong Ernie. Reading your definition....the result or set of results are simply Wrexham matching or bettering our result. It is therefore in their hands. They are in the driving seat.What they do is out of our hands; if they win and by the same or more than us then that's it.
What is in our hands is winning by as many as we can then HOPING that it betters Wrexham s result.

But its the same for Wrexham.
All they can do is win by as many as they can and hope we dont better their result.

Its in both our hands yet also in neither

 

[Gone For A Walk]

I'll reiterate: I don't think we're in pole position. I think Wrexham are.


But it's not out of our hands - that's a statement of logic, not probability.

Once again, I'll ask what is the scoreline Wrexham can achieve that will render it logically impossible for us to finish sixth?

An actual scoreline.

Not a probable result which would render our success unlikely.

Easy. An actual score that is the same (or better) than ours. Take your pick. It's therefore in their hands rather than ours. They win by same or more than us then there's not a thing we can do about it....therefore it's not in our hands.

 

[Cortez91]

Southampton just equalised against Ipswich.

1-1

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

Easy. An actual score that is the same (or better) than ours. Take your pick. It's therefore in their hands rather than ours. They win by same or more than us then there's not a thing we can do about it....therefore it's not in our hands.

Do you understand logic?

There is no result that Wrexham can achieve that renders our finishing sixth logically impossible.

Therefore it's not out of our hands.

You are confusing probable outcome with what is actually possible.

 

[Amin Arrears]

So where‘s everyone going for breakfast on Saturday?

A posh hotel in Notts.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Do you understand logic?

There is no result that Wrexham can achieve that renders our finishing sixth logically impossible.

Therefore it's not out of our hands.

You are confusing probable outcome with what is actually possible.

I really aren't!! Anyway, back to watching 2 great games!

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

I really aren't!! Anyway, back to watching 2 great games!

Bertrand Russell will be turning in his grave, with Ludwig Wittgenstein comforting him saying 'there, there Bertie, don't worry, he knows not of what he speaks.

 

[Cortez91]

Southampton 2-2 Ipswich

A result neither side needed.

 

[Plum]

It's in our own hands.

What is the result that either Wrexham or Derby can achieve that make it impossible for us to get in the playoffs?

If we just needed to win then yes it's in our hands, but we don't know how many we need to win by because others can influence that so it isn't entirely in our hands.
Re your question, there is no such result because all 3 games are happening simultaneously, the outcomes in the Derby and Wrexham games are not under our control and they directly influence what our result needs to be.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

If we just needed to win then yes it's in our hands, but we don't know how many we need to win by because others can influence that so it isn't entirely in our hands.
Re your question, there is no such result because all 3 games are happening simultaneously, the outcomes in the Derby and Wrexham games are not under our control and they directly influence what our result needs to be.

We need to increase our goal difference by at least one relative to Wrexham, given that both sides win.

Why is that hard to understand?

 

[City1904]

We need to increase our goal difference by at least one relative to Wrexham, given that both sides win.

Why is that hard to understand?

But by that definition, surely a Wrexham fan will say the exact same thing. It is in their hands as what result could Hull City achieve that would render it impossible for them?

Therefore, your logic is flawed as two teams both can't be equally in control of their own destiny when only one team can achieve the desired outcome.

 

[Amin Arrears]

Theres only one goal in it and we definitely have the easier game. It’s in neither teams hands.

 

[Plum]

We need to increase our goal difference by at least one relative to Wrexham, given that both sides win.

Why is that hard to understand?

Not hard to understand at all but that isn't the meaning of 'in our own hands' because we're then relying on Wrexham to play a part in their own downfall!
The meaning of 'in our own hands' means that we can say 'win 3-0 (or whatever) and you're in 6th, guaranteed', and we can't say that.

 

[tigermaul]

Firstly let me say (well, done Ernie, remembering how to start off talking meaningless bollocks from your How to be a Politician course), that I don't think we're in pole position to get into the playoffs, but things are most definitely IN OUR OWN HANDS (Umm, Ernie, no need to shout - Err, sorry, but it's beginning to annoy me now).

What's the definition of not being in your own hands? (in a football context obvs, I'm not referencing some pervy Gentleman's relief stuff here).

It means that there's a result (or set of results) that means regardless of what result you achieve, it's rendered impossible for you to succeed.

But, there's no such result.


We simply need to win (and assuming that they also win), better Wrexham's result by one goal.


In what way is that not in our hands?



Let's clear this up. It's doing my ****ing nut in every time I read that it's not in our hands.

I do kind of agree. The problem being if we’re doing what’s required and Wrexham (or Derby) score, we’ll have to score again. The best we can hope for is to beat Norwich by two clear goals, but given our respective current form I cannot see that happening.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

Not hard to understand at all but that isn't the meaning of 'in our own hands' because we're then relying on Wrexham to play a part in their own downfall!
The meaning of 'in our own hands' means that we can say 'win 3-0 (or whatever) and you're in 6th, guaranteed', and we can't say that.

You've just invented that meaning.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

But by that definition, surely a Wrexham fan will say the exact same thing. It is in their hands as what result could Hull City achieve that would render it impossible for them?

Therefore, your logic is flawed as two teams both can't be equally in control of their own destiny when only one team can achieve the desired outcome.

Yes they can.

 

[Amin Arrears]

Not hard to understand at all but that isn't the meaning of 'in our own hands' because we're then relying on Wrexham to play a part in their own downfall!
The meaning of 'in our own hands' means that we can say 'win 3-0 (or whatever) and you're in 6th, guaranteed', and we can't say that.

But that’s the same for Wrexham, except they just need to match our result vs a tougher opponent instead of better it by one goal.

 

[Plum]

You've just invented that meaning.

Clutching at straws Ernie, no?

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

I do kind of agree. The problem being if we’re doing what’s required and Wrexham (or Derby) score, we’ll have to score again. The best we can hope for is to beat Norwich by two clear goals, but given our respective current form I cannot see that happening.

Our ability to achieve a result is separate to the logical possibility of that result being achieved.

Likelihood does not negate potentiality.