The argument/complete nonsense thread...

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Look, Newland, it's not really on to blame the pensioners, who instead of voting for a well-run country, have consistently voted for the government which will guarantee that the *working taxpayer* pay them an inflation-busting triple lock pension, despite the fact they own 60% of the country's property wealth and paid their parents only poverty level pensions in the 1970-1990s.

It's clearly also a 19 year old's fault for buying an avocado on the way into work.
** The tax bill I received must have come to the wrong person and address. :emoticon-0138-think
 
Look, Newland, it's not really on to blame the pensioners, who instead of voting for a well-run country, have consistently voted for the government which will guarantee that the working taxpayer pay them an inflation-busting triple lock pension, despite the fact they own 60% of the country's property wealth and paid their parents only poverty level pensions in the 1970-1990s.

It's clearly also a 19 year old's fault for buying an avocado on the way into work.
Yes,quite...

How dare they toil for 50 years of their life and expect to be paid £230.25 per week state pension.

Euthanasia for pensioners anyone?
 
The biggest problem is big businesses and mega rich people not paying tax but nobody cares about that, too busy frothing at their mouths about the half wits and immigrants taking a relative pittance.

Neither should be happening but there’s levels to these things. Funny how the small fish get all the attention.
The curse of posting having mixed strains of weed from both Afghanistan and Thailand....

Relative Pittance,that deserves a frothing guffaw:emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
Yes,quite...

How dare they toil for 50 years of their life and expect to be paid £230.25 per week state pension.

Euthanasia for pensioners anyone?
How much? I toiled and paid tax and NI from the age of 16 to 68 and never claimed a penny in benefits and don't receive anything like that for my state pension. Sick of hearing that my generation had it easy on housing too because houses were 'cheap'. I don't remember them being cheap, when I bought me first house in 1975 I was paying three times more a week for it then my workmates were paying rent for a council house, and they laughed at me and we all earned the same wages within a couple of pound.
 
How much? I toiled and paid tax and NI from the age of 16 to 68 and never claimed a penny in benefits and don't receive anything like that for my state pension. Sick of hearing that my generation had it easy on housing too because houses were 'cheap'. I don't remember them being cheap, when I bought me first house in 1975 I was paying three times more a week for it then my workmates were paying rent for a council house, and they laughed at me and we all earned the same wages within a couple of pound.
Come on G, they might not have been cheap, but average house price in the mid 1970s was about £10-12k against a £4-5k average salary.

Average house price now is £280k against an average £28k salary, so from 3x annual income to 10x annual income, plus have to factor in the greater difficulty in raising the larger required deposit.

Add on to this lower rates of marriage and committed relationships, plus greater competition for stock, it is a lot harder now.

Two of my kids are saving to buy and have moved back home to save to afford to buy together - can't do it alone due to too low incomes relative to the loan they need.
 
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Come on G, they might not have been cheap, but average house price in the mid 1970s was about £10-12k against a £4-5k average salary.

Average house price now is £280k against an average £28k salary, so from 3x annual income to 10x annual income, plus have to factor in the greater difficulty in raising the larger required deposit.

Add on to this lower rates of marriage and committed relationships, plus greater competition for stock, it is a lot harder now.

Two of my kids are saving to buy and have moved back home to save to afford to buy together - can't do it alone due to too low incomes relative to the loan they need.
It's a good job mortgage rates weren't in double digit figures in the late 1970's, oh... :emoticon-0138-think
 
How much? I toiled and paid tax and NI from the age of 16 to 68 and never claimed a penny in benefits and don't receive anything like that for my state pension. Sick of hearing that my generation had it easy on housing too because houses were 'cheap'. I don't remember them being cheap, when I bought me first house in 1975 I was paying three times more a week for it then my workmates were paying rent for a council house, and they laughed at me and we all earned the same wages within a couple of pound.
This.

Plus the 'myth' that pensioners don't pay tax!!
I pay more tax than the average working man / woman does!!
In fact, this year I'll pay more tax than the state pension I receive!!
Yes, I'm relatively fortunate, but
a) I'm relatively comfortable, certainly not wealthy, and
b) I worked damn hard (on my job and on my self) for close to 50 years to get what I've got, including the 'reward' of the social contract that entails now receiving the state pension.
And I don't mind still paying my share of tax .... although I do think the stealth tax of freezing the tax thresholds is an absolute twat's trick from successive governments who then claim they aren't increasing taxes whilst continuing and then extending the freeze - yes they bloody are increasing taxes, and it's by a significant amount as each year compounds the stealth. And then there's the ever growing multitude of 'hidden' tax we all pay (pensioners included).
 
Come on G, they might not have been cheap, but average house price in the mid 1970s was about £10-12k against a £4-5k average salary.

Average house price now is £280k against an average £28k salary, so from 3x annual income to 10x annual income, plus have to factor in the greater difficulty in raising the larger required deposit.

Add on to this lower rates of marriage and committed relationships, plus greater competition for stock, it is a lot harder now.

Two of my kids are saving to buy and have moved back home to save to afford to buy together - can't do it alone due to too low incomes relative to the loan they need.
It depends on what type of house they want. The average price today may well be £280K but there are plenty still available especially in Hull for well under £100K. My first place was a two up two down, with a back yard, no garden, and the 'bathroom' was a single brick building added onto the kitchen. No central heating, second hand furniture, black and white telly from Pools Corner etc etc. We didn't own a car for our first ten years of married life and no-one I knew went on a foreign holiday. It was hard, and that was the norm for the working man. I had to take on an extra job when the overtime dried up at work. We slowly did the house up bit by bit, sold it, and moved on to something a bit better, and I've done that ten times. Today people want everything straight away. I never earned £5k a year either working in the foundry at Ideal Standard when I started there in 1972, and Standard was considered as one of the best paid jobs in the city. We jumped for joy when we got a rise to £1 an hour just after the first miners strikes in the early 70's, that is £40 for a 40 hour week, less tax and NI. It was never easy. I've been in punch up's on the shop floor over overtime because we depended on it to pay our bills.
Not saying it's not hard today for kids to get on the housing ladder today either but I doubt if they would have lived like we did. Also don't forget it was my generation who fought to get a decent wage, by striking, three day weeks and so on. The unions were very strong in those days. Do you think we managed to get a rise to £1 an hour by the goodness of the employers hearts? We had to fight for everything.
Be honest, look how people live today, there is a lot more money about, I have a grandchild now backpacking in Thailand, her mobile contract cost more a month than our first car cost and I say good luck to her. I didn't know where Thailand was at her age, I was hampered with a mortgage and two kids but Its changing times, and as people, our values have changed too.
Some would say for the better?
 
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Come on G, they might not have been cheap, but average house price in the mid 1970s was about £10-12k against a £4-5k average salary.

Average house price now is £280k against an average £28k salary, so from 3x annual income to 10x annual income, plus have to factor in the greater difficulty in raising the larger required deposit.

Add on to this lower rates of marriage and committed relationships, plus greater competition for stock, it is a lot harder now.

Two of my kids are saving to buy and have moved back home to save to afford to buy together - can't do it alone due to too low incomes relative to the loan they need.

Take the average house price and wage with a pinch of salt, both back then and now.
A typical worker to boss pay difference in the 70s was 2 or 3 times, now it's much more. Housing stock has also changed to match earnings.
Also distorting the figures is the North South divide.
 
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It depends on what type of house they want. The average price today may well be £280K but there are plenty still available especially in Hull for well under £100K. My first place was a two up two down, with a back yard, no garden, and the 'bathroom' was a single brick building added onto the kitchen. No central heating, second hand furniture, black and white telly from Pools Corner etc etc. We didn't own a car for our first ten years of married life and no-one I knew went on a foreign holiday. It was hard, and that was the norm for the working man. I had to take on an extra job when the overtime dried up at work. We slowly did the house up bit by bit, sold it, and moved on to something a bit better, and I've done that ten times. Today people want everything straight away. I never earned £5k a year either working in the foundry at Ideal Standard when I started there in 1972, and Standard was considered as one of the best paid jobs in the city. We jumped for joy when we got a rise to £1 an hour just after the first miners strikes in the early 70's, that is £40 for a 40 hour week, less tax and NI. It was never easy. I've been in punch up's on the shop floor over overtime because we depended on it to pay our bills.
Not saying it's not hard today for kids to get on the housing ladder today either but I doubt if they would have lived like we did. Also don't forget it was my generation who fought to get a decent wage, by striking, three day weeks and so on. The unions were very strong in those days. Do you think we managed to get a rise to £1 an hour by the goodness of the employers hearts? We had to fight for everything.
Be honest, look how people live today, there is a lot more money about, I have a grandchild now backpacking in Thailand, her mobile contract cost more a month than our first car cost and I say good luck to her. I didn't know where Thailand was at her age, I was hampered with a mortgage and two kids but Its changing times, and as people, our values have changed too.
Some would say for the better?
Fair enough. In all honesty, many things are better, some things are worse and getting worse, such as income inequality.
 
Take the average house price and wage with a pinch of salt, both back then and now.
A typical worker to boss pay difference in the 70s was 2 or 3 times, now it's much more. Housing stock has also changed to match earnings.
Also distorting the figures is the North South divide.
Again, fair enough, but i have to use a base figure somewhere or the post would be a thesis if it factored the regional differences in.
 
Using the governments own figures for 2025

Benefit fraud and error 6.5bn
Asylum seekers 5.4bn
Tax evasion 46bn

Pittance indeed. But, you know, brown people.
Looks like a lot of that tax evasion is actaully small business and a good chunk of that are the types of bussiness everyone would suspect !


"Ellen Milner commented: “While large businesses and wealthy individuals are often accused of not paying enough tax these figures suggest that their total share of the tax gap is not much more than a quarter of that of small businesses."

 
The biggest problem is big businesses and mega rich people not paying tax but nobody cares about that, too busy frothing at their mouths about the half wits and immigrants taking a relative pittance.

Neither should be happening but there’s levels to these things. Funny how the small fish get all the attention.
<applause><applause><applause>
 
Using the governments own figures for 2025

Benefit fraud and error 6.5bn
Asylum seekers 5.4bn
Tax evasion 46bn

Pittance indeed. But, you know, brown people.
Fortunately,I never mentioned 'brown people'...You did,maybe they're embedded in your head and hopefully the on duty mod will see it for what it is.

On the other hand if you're accusing ME of racism then fill your boots as I consider it a throwaway comment nowadays.:emoticon-0148-yes:
 
Looks like a lot of that tax evasion is actaully small business and a good chunk of that are the types of bussiness everyone would suspect !


"Ellen Milner commented: “While large businesses and wealthy individuals are often accused of not paying enough tax these figures suggest that their total share of the tax gap is not much more than a quarter of that of small businesses."


Interesting and surprising. Although, moving the goalposts a bit, how much do big businesses cost the public purse overall? Recording profits of hundreds of millions or billions yet paying most their workforce minimum wage or barely much above it, often to be topped up by UC? Whilst executives obviously take home mega salaries and shareholders take huge dividends. Probably completely unquantifiable but the cost of that would likely make any tax issues look insignificant you would have to think.

Technically legal but morally bankrupt?
 
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Fortunately,I never mentioned 'brown people'...You did,maybe they're embedded in your head and hopefully the on duty mod will see it for what it is.

On the other hand if you're accusing ME of racism then fill your boots as I consider it a throwaway comment nowadays.:emoticon-0148-yes:

Wasn’t a comment aimed at anyone in particular despite replying to your post, more at how there’s so much more focus and anger about what is a relatively insignificant issue compared to those that are pulling the strings, writing the narrative and also really are taking the piss.

You know full well if I wanted to call you a racist I’d just call you a racist, I don’t beat about the bush <ok>

You racist ****.
 
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