Arsenal Team News and Injury Updates

[BrunelGunner]

More great news on the injury front (not) - Havertz has had another mini-setback in his recovery.

He was targeting a comeback at the end of the month (possibly the Villa game), but apparently his recovery has been slower than expected and he isn't going to be back until mid-January. The club are looking at the Portsmouth away game in the FA Cup as the date.

At this rate, I'm not even expecting him back until February onwards because every time he seems to be close to making a comeback, there are delays or issues...

 

[Jayramfootball]

More great news on the injury front (not) - Havertz has had another mini-setback in his recovery.

He was targeting a comeback at the end of the month (possibly the Villa game), but apparently his recovery has been slower than expected and he isn't going to be back until mid-January. The club are looking at the Portsmouth away game in the FA Cup as the date.

At this rate, I'm not even expecting him back until February onwards because every time he seems to be close to making a comeback, there are delays or issues...

Said it in October - his season is ruined and I did not expect him back in 'mid Nov' as was rumoured on social media.
Even if he makes it back in mid January (doubtful) , it will take at least until March until he's match fit (even if he gets a lot of match minutes)... and there will be the risk of a set back once he starts playing.

Thats a full YEAR out for Havertz now - players with broken legs make it back quicker than that.
Not sure he will ever be able to make it back.

That means Gyokeres HAS to step up OR Jesus needs to stay healthy (the latter being a long shot).

I don't expect Gabriel back either until much later than anticipated.

 

[theHotHeaded One]

Well Arteta better stop being a clown then and start playing to Gyokeres' strengths!! Can we attack down the middle for once, can we attack more directly, can we make some switch of plays so as to not be so predictable.

 

[Jayramfootball]

Well Arteta better stop being a clown then and start playing to Gyokeres' strengths!! Can we attack down the middle for once, can we attack more directly, can we make some switch of plays so as to not be so predictable.

The playing to Gyokeres strengths argument going around is a complete nonsense.
Gyokeres is simply underperforming to expectation due to himself.
He needs to step it up significantly - a decent PL striker would have 8-10 PL goals now for us with the situations he's had this season.

 

[theHotHeaded One]

The playing to Gyokeres strengths argument going around is a complete nonsense.
Gyokeres is simply underperforming to expectation due to himself.
He needs to step it up significantly - a decent PL striker would have 8-10 PL goals now for us with the situations he's had this season.

Jay you are talking rubbish - put simply. We don't play to his strengths, we pass the ball endlessly, we dont play balls over the top for him to run on to, we never see his runs.

Interestingly, yesterday or the day before, I Googled how many big chances Gyokeres had missed. It brought back a result from AI that said:

"Viktor Gyökeres does miss big chances, but often due to lack of quality service at Arsenal, not consistently missing easy goals; stats show he's missed a few in the Premier League and Champions League (e.g., 2 in a UCL game), but his overall finishing is strong, turning good looks into goals, though heading is a noted weakness. While he had a big chance miss early in his Arsenal career, he's generally converting chances well, with discussions highlighting the team's failure to create enough for him compared to other strikers like Haaland."

But people are trying to tell me Gyokeres is the problem loooool.

 

[Jayramfootball]

Jay you are talking rubbish - put simply. We don't play to his strengths, we pass the ball endlessly, we dont play balls over the top for him to run on to, we never see his runs.

Interestingly, yesterday or the day before, I Googled how many big chances Gyokeres had missed. It brought back a result from AI that said:

"Viktor Gyökeres does miss big chances, but often due to lack of quality service at Arsenal, not consistently missing easy goals; stats show he's missed a few in the Premier League and Champions League (e.g., 2 in a UCL game), but his overall finishing is strong, turning good looks into goals, though heading is a noted weakness. While he had a big chance miss early in his Arsenal career, he's generally converting chances well, with discussions highlighting the team's failure to create enough for him compared to other strikers like Haaland."

But people are trying to tell me Gyokeres is the problem loooool.

You are just being carried away by the excuses all over social media.

We all saw Havertz at CF.
32 goals or assists in 48 games as a CF, in 4004 minutes of play.

Gyokeres 6 goals or assists in 19 games as a CF, in 1243 minutes of play.

If Gyokeres continues at this rate and does not improve then by the time he's played the same minutes as Havertz he's be on 19 goals and assists.
that's barely over 50% of Havertz and Havertz was deemed by many as not good enough!

The excuses need to stop because it can not be good for Gyokeres either. He needs to get better, it's as simple as that.
I am hopeful that he can and he just needs to get on a run now, but the task ahead for him is clear - goal contributions especially in key moments and big games. I do trust the scouting system and therefore believe there must be something there and it will come good.

The game against Everton is a tough one - another Saturday night game and the feeling is we aren't winning it. It's the perfect time for him to step up and get us back on track. I think whether he succeeds or fails at Arsenal is ALL on him. Right now I think he's hiding. He's been too slow to get forward, on his heels and not being there to convert some excellent opportunities. He must be more positive and anticipate better.

He's underperforming his xG in the PL - at just 80% goals to expected goals. 100% is average. So the idea that "his overall finishing is strong, turning good looks into goals" is simply inaccurate.

 

[TheBear]

You are both right to some extent.

On one hand Odegaard, Eze etc.. have not been playing the right kinds of passes. We are soo used to playing to feet and that's not Gyokeres's strength. But on the other hand we are TOP tier at putting crosses into the box and Gyokeres rarely gets anywhere near them.

But really the biggest issue for Gyokeres is the way teams are setting up against us. Constant low blocks, teams like Sunderland, Wolves and Villa - also try to disrupt the flow off the game. It's very hard to play through a side who isn't coming forward.

 

[Jayramfootball]

You are both right to some extent.

On one hand Odegaard, Eze etc.. have not been playing the right kinds of passes. We are soo used to playing to feet and that's not Gyokeres's strength. But on the other hand we are TOP tier at putting crosses into the box and Gyokeres rarely gets anywhere near them.

But really the biggest issue for Gyokeres is the way teams are setting up against us. Constant low blocks, teams like Sunderland, Wolves and Villa - also try to disrupt the flow off the game. It's very hard to play through a side who isn't coming forward.

If you look at chances created - and yes that includes set piece chances - we are one of the best in the league and just slightly behind City. The chances are there - particularly for a 9 (or a specific type of 9)
Low blocks are a fact of life for us. City face it too.
What we really needed as an option was an absolute killer in the air and in the box, getting on the end of crosses, not yet another player who is more of a space player who runs wide. We had those in abundance already.
The low block typically means we HAVE to go wide and get the ball in the box and right now we have no one who can anticipate the crosses really well and be on the end of them either on the ground or in the air - except Gabriel on corners.
Merino is ok at it - but not elite.
Havertz is ok at it - but not elite.... he's more of a false 9.
Jesus isn't that type of player.

Thats where I want to see Gyokeres step up. That's why it's on him. He needs to change his game, not the other way round.
We're not going to change our system for him because, as you say, most of the time we're up against a low block. That rules out regular fast breaks into space and slotted passes to a forward running on to the ball.
We certainly could get the ball wide quicker and be more positive on the flanks taking defenders on instead of recycling the ball through midfield, but even if we do, we need that box player who will anticipate and be on the end of things.
Gyokeres needs to show that he is that player. I frankly could not give a damn if he runs wide, pulls two defenders and 'makes space' for others. We had that already.

Get in the f'king box, anticipate crosses and make the right moves across defenders, Viktor!

 

[TheBear]

If you look at chances created - and yes that includes set piece chances - we are one of the best in the league and just slightly behind City. The chances are there - particularly for a 9 (or a specific type of 9)
Low blocks are a fact of life for us. City face it too.
What we really needed as an option was an absolute killer in the air and in the box, getting on the end of crosses, not yet another player who is more of a space player who runs wide. We had those in abundance already.
The low block typically means we HAVE to go wide and get the ball in the box and right now we have no one who can anticipate the crosses really well and be on the end of them either on the ground or in the air - except Gabriel on corners.
Merino is ok at it - but not elite.
Havertz is ok at it - but not elite.... he's more of a false 9.
Jesus isn't that type of player.

Thats where I want to see Gyokeres step up. That's why it's on him. He needs to change his game, not the other way round.
We're not going to change our system for him because, as you say, most of the time we're up against a low block. That rules out regular fast breaks into space and slotted passes to a forward running on to the ball.
We certainly could get the ball wide quicker and be more positive on the flanks taking defenders on instead of recycling the ball through midfield, but even if we do, we need that box player who will anticipate and be on the end of things.
Gyokeres needs to show that he is that player. I frankly could not give a damn if he runs wide, pulls two defenders and 'makes space' for others. We had that already.

Get in the f'king box, anticipate crosses and make the right moves across defenders, Viktor!

I think the argument is we don't play him through when there is space for him to run into. Which is fair.

But he needs to be MUCH better in a crowded box. He needs to improve in the air and he needs to be much quicker and sharper when there are defenders on top of him.

 

[theHotHeaded One]

You are both right to some extent.

On one hand Odegaard, Eze etc.. have not been playing the right kinds of passes. We are soo used to playing to feet and that's not Gyokeres's strength. But on the other hand we are TOP tier at putting crosses into the box and Gyokeres rarely gets anywhere near them.

But really the biggest issue for Gyokeres is the way teams are setting up against us. Constant low blocks, teams like Sunderland, Wolves and Villa - also try to disrupt the flow off the game. It's very hard to play through a side who isn't coming forward.

Lets not forget defenders taking headers from him ! 2 certain goals not scored because Timber and someone else jumped in front of him.

Not sure what people want from Gyokeres, he makes runs and never gets the pass. Even Messi would struggle to have an impact if he didn't get the ball.

 

[theHotHeaded One]

You are just being carried away by the excuses all over social media.

We all saw Havertz at CF.
32 goals or assists in 48 games as a CF, in 4004 minutes of play.

Gyokeres 6 goals or assists in 19 games as a CF, in 1243 minutes of play.

If Gyokeres continues at this rate and does not improve then by the time he's played the same minutes as Havertz he's be on 19 goals and assists.
that's barely over 50% of Havertz and Havertz was deemed by many as not good enough!

The excuses need to stop because it can not be good for Gyokeres either. He needs to get better, it's as simple as that.
I am hopeful that he can and he just needs to get on a run now, but the task ahead for him is clear - goal contributions especially in key moments and big games. I do trust the scouting system and therefore believe there must be something there and it will come good.

The game against Everton is a tough one - another Saturday night game and the feeling is we aren't winning it. It's the perfect time for him to step up and get us back on track. I think whether he succeeds or fails at Arsenal is ALL on him. Right now I think he's hiding. He's been too slow to get forward, on his heels and not being there to convert some excellent opportunities. He must be more positive and anticipate better.

He's underperforming his xG in the PL - at just 80% goals to expected goals. 100% is average. So the idea that "his overall finishing is strong, turning good looks into goals" is simply inaccurate.

Jay I have said this to you before so you know I am not following a trend. The reason our style of play is not used as a reason to knock Havertz is because it suits his game, nobody could ever say our style is hindering Havertz. He is a totally different CF to Gyokeres, in fact Havertz and Merino are more similar than either is to Gyokeres.

Merino and Havertz like to drop deep and both make late runs into the box. Havertz does more selfless running than Merino and will put pressure on a CB but he doesn't run past CBs for the ball over the top, he will run to a flank and get the ball wide then link up. This is why his game suits our slow pass pass pass game.

This is why it surprises me the criticism Gyokeres gets, we don't play to his strengths at all but then complain he needs to do better. How?! There is a reason Arteta bought a traditional CF, its about time he started utilising him properly.

 

[Jayramfootball]

Jay I have said this to you before so you know I am not following a trend. The reason our style of play is not used as a reason to knock Havertz is because it suits his game, nobody could ever say our style is hindering Havertz. He is a totally different CF to Gyokeres, in fact Havertz and Merino are more similar than either is to Gyokeres.

Merino and Havertz like to drop deep and both make late runs into the box. Havertz does more selfless running than Merino and will put pressure on a CB but he doesn't run past CBs for the ball over the top, he will run to a flank and get the ball wide then link up. This is why his game suits our slow pass pass pass game.

This is why it surprises me the criticism Gyokeres gets, we don't play to his strengths at all but then complain he needs to do better. How?! There is a reason Arteta bought a traditional CF, its about time he started utilising him properly.

Both Merino and Havertz adapted their games when they were thrust into the CF position.
Maybe our style is more suited to a false 9 - and that's fine. That's how we play.
If Gyokeres can not adapt then he shouldn't be here.
Personally, as I said, I want him to be a box threat and getting on the end of crosses high and low. He is not doing that - yet.
We simply don't need a channel runner.

 

[Jayramfootball]

Lets not forget defenders taking headers from him ! 2 certain goals not scored because Timber and someone else jumped in front of him.

Not sure what people want from Gyokeres, he makes runs and never gets the pass. Even Messi would struggle to have an impact if he didn't get the ball.

The Timber one was a travesty - an easy goal for Gyokeres if Timber had of left it.
But, did Gyokeres call for the ball as his? I don't think he did. I watched the replay at the time and I don't remember seeing him visibly shouting for the ball to be his. Again - that killer attitude in the box was not there.

Let's agree on one key thing - it would be great to see him score the winner tomorrow night. Timing would be perfect as we're showing some really bad signs right now and need a moment.

 

[theHotHeaded One]

Both Merino and Havertz adapted their games when they were thrust into the CF position.
Maybe our style is more suited to a false 9 - and that's fine. That's how we play.
If Gyokeres can not adapt then he shouldn't be here.
Personally, as I said, I want him to be a box threat and getting on the end of crosses high and low. He is not doing that - yet.
We simply don't need a channel runner.

No maybe about it Jay, possession football the way we play suits a false 9 not a "plays off the shoulder of the CBs" CF.

 

[Jayramfootball]

No maybe about it Jay, possession football the way we play suits a false 9 not a "plays off the shoulder of the CBs" CF.

Well exactly and that is point.
If teams play the low block against us. we're not often going to have those situations where we have a forward running in behind into space.
Therefore we need a false 9 dropping to help link play and draw defenders out OR a forward who is going to be a killer at getting on the end of crosses (air or ground) to get the box finishes.

A big part of our style that Gyokeres does not seem to suit is that the OTHER team sits back in a low block - which I think was the point Bear was making too.

 

[TheBear]

I feel like either Odegaard or Eze need to step up now.

There's a competition for the no.10 role and neither player has really cemented a strong argument for starting.

Eze had the hatrick against Spurs but he also had a few games where he was very very quiet.

Odegaard is getting the nod because he's the Captain but also .. his performances have not been great at all. (admittedly he had a really bad injury and it takes time to recover)

With big games coming up it may be time to put Eze back in?

 

[theHotHeaded One]

Well exactly and that is point.
If teams play the low block against us. we're not often going to have those situations where we have a forward running in behind into space.
Therefore we need a false 9 dropping to help link play and draw defenders out OR a forward who is going to be a killer at getting on the end of crosses (air or ground) to get the box finishes.

A big part of our style that Gyokeres does not seem to suit is that the OTHER team sits back in a low block - which I think was the point Bear was making too.

Initially I liked the idea of having 2 types of CF and I wanted them rotated and picked for specific games. Against teams that play a high line, Gyokeres gets the nod, for teams that sit back, Havertz gets the nod. If we need to go to plan B either one comes on. Not having Havertz has robbed us of that, but that said Merino has come in and done just that.

 

[theHotHeaded One]

I feel like either Odegaard or Eze need to step up now.

There's a competition for the no.10 role and neither player has really cemented a strong argument for starting.

Eze had the hatrick against Spurs but he also had a few games where he was very very quiet.

Odegaard is getting the nod because he's the Captain but also .. his performances have not been great at all. (admittedly he had a really bad injury and it takes time to recover)

With big games coming up it may be time to put Eze back in?

My problem with Eze is, he is far too anonymous most games and hardly gets the ball. Contrast that to Odegaard who hogs the ball and does very little with it. Eze is better recieving the ball on the half turn then running at the defence to create something for himself or the forwards.

 

[Jayramfootball]

Initially I liked the idea of having 2 types of CF and I wanted them rotated and picked for specific games. Against teams that play a high line, Gyokeres gets the nod, for teams that sit back, Havertz gets the nod. If we need to go to plan B either one comes on. Not having Havertz has robbed us of that, but that said Merino has come in and done just that.

The problem Gyokeres is going to have is that Havertz is stronger and faster, better at headers, better at the forward press AND can play deeper.
I hear the argument of Gyokeres having some strengths peeling off into wide positions and making runs into space, but I am really not seeing that at an elite level that would suggest it's a super power (like Haaland has that super power that makes him so dangerous).

 

[theHotHeaded One]

The problem Gyokeres is going to have is that Havertz is stronger and faster, better at headers, better at the forward press AND can play deeper.
I hear the argument of Gyokeres having some strengths peeling off into wide positions and making runs into space, but I am really not seeing that at an elite level that would suggest it's a super power (like Haaland has that super power that makes him so dangerous).

The only time your statement becomes valid is when we start playing to Gyokeres' strengths and if he continues to be ineffective. We never pass the ball to him, so all of his runs will look ineffective. Most of our crosses are ****e too.

He had a couple of goals stolen from him by teammates getting in the way of headers and was robbed of a penalty from a push in the back in the last game.