Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Fulham

[SarrMan]

I mean, when the fans spend 10-15 minutes actively trolling our players by cheering when they complete a pass, they do deserve some clapback for it

Yeah I don’t agree with booing individuals especially in game.

Having meetings to discuss the fans though is a bit drastic (especially after the Chelsea game!) We’re all fickle no matter who you support so start getting a few wins at home and all goes away.

 

[BinghamSpur]

Bet they are a bit snug after that breakfast

Indeed...

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Yeah I don’t agree with booing individuals especially in game.

Having meetings to discuss the fans though is a bit drastic (especially after the Chelsea game!) We’re all fickle no matter who you support so start getting a few wins at home and all goes away.

Frankly, our fans need to start sarcastically cheering referees when they remember that he can book players from both sides

Though that usually doesn't happen until the 83rd minute

 

[Left on the Shelf]

What a bunch of absolute melts.

That just made my day!

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I think the players are also coming to terms with the fact that with Son gone and zero academy players coming through into the team, we couldn't give a flying toss about most of them.

 

[KingHotspur]

I think the players are also coming to terms with the fact that with Son gone and zero academy players coming through into the team, we couldn't give a flying toss about most of them.

Yeah I think Son was the last player I ‘liked’

As you get older it takes more to really like a player but none of the current lot are even close for me

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Yeah I think Son was the last player I ‘liked’

As you get older it takes more to really like a player but none of the current lot are even close for me

I really like Micky and Kulu.

But hand on heart, the rest of them could leave in January and I wouldn't blink.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

Yeah I think Son was the last player I ‘liked’

As you get older it takes more to really like a player but none of the current lot are even close for me

Agree re: Sonny
Ben Davies is a lad I have a lot of time for. No messing, just a good, intelligent down-to-earth professional. What's not to like?

 

[KingHotspur]

I really like Micky and Kulu.

But hand on heart, the rest of them could leave in January and I wouldn't blink.

There’s a few I don’t mind and these two come under that bracket. Wouldn’t like to lose either because they’re good players but atm they’ve not made my liked list

 

[Dier Hard]

Yeah I’m the same as you guys, Sonny I genuinely loved. He got what it meant to play for Tottenham and the added bonus of him being a phenomenal footballer also helped, plus despite being a South Korean import, it felt like Sonny was “one of our own” such was his impact and love for the club. Showed great loyalty too, for me in football being loyal isn’t just about staying at a club for a long time, it’s staying knowing you’re more than good enough to join a bigger and better one. Like Kane, Son could’ve joined pretty much any team on the planet after just a few seasons and yet both gave about a decade of service each.

There’s a few I like a lot in this current team (Romero, van de Ven and Kulu) but little emotional connection for me.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

I've no problem with those employed by the club (board members, coaching staff and players) meeting to discuss the current atmosphere in the stadium. In fact, I wecome it...

...provided that those involved give themselves a very long hard look and accept that the onus to improve the situation rests with them, alone.

If there are any that believe that our current level of performance and results are due a better reception, they should **** off somewhere else...as soon as possible.

I watched us get relegated in '77. We were ****ing dreadful and rightly finished bottom of the league...but I applauded the players' efforts after most games and on the final day.

It wasn't the coach's or the players' fault that we weren't good enough. Everyone put in everything they had. I don’t think that's currently the case. It's time for hard truths and tough decisions to be made by everyone involved. Anyone who thinks they're not part of the problem, shouldn't be involved in finding a solution.

The players can start by showing some ****ing heart and bollocks, from first whistle to last. The coaching staff need to prepare a team to fight and win, not shoulder arms and try and avoid a whupping and the CEO and DoF's need to earn their corn in bringing in players who actually come close to reflecting their transfer fee and wages.

When that happens, there won’t be an issue that needs discussing...until then..."suck it up".

 

[Left on the Shelf]

This is from the Telegraph, so not a serious source, but still... (and excuse the personal rant!)

I find this all quite concerning - and agree with CK, some of these players sound like complete melts!

I don't as a rule agree with booing the team or individual during games. Not sure that it helps anyone.

But fans equally have every right to react when they turn up to games - at great personal expense - and regularly get presented with a half-assed performance by individuals earning more in a week than they do in 100 weeks! Saturday was not a one-off by any means: there have been at least 4 equally lazy, uncommitted performances this PL season alone, although none worse than in 3 London derbies.

Fans can generally take defeat ok and will continue to support the players if they feel the team is trying their best. If the problem is a club management /ownership issue then any protests will be before and after games.

But when else can fans actually voice their concerns about the apparent lack of effort by the players themselves?

And as for the reaction to the Vicario **** up, it's not like this was a one-off. He has made a habit over the last couple of years of making stupid errors of judgement that have either cost goals or brought unnecessary pressure on the team. The reaction two days ago was I think a culmination of things in his case - compounded by the appalling start to the game.

I think these overpaid Prima Donna's need to STFU, put on their Big Boy pants and do their talking on the pitch. It is interesting to note that it was 19 yr old Bergvall who took the responsibility on and off the pitch last weekend, rather than the so-called experienced Porro (and others). Lucas was rightly immune from fan criticism against Fulham.

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[Left on the Shelf]

I watched us get relegated in '77. We were ****ing dreadful and rightly finished bottom of the league...but I applauded the players' efforts after most games and on the final day.

This 100% - and I would also go back a couple more years and remember how the fans got behind the team in the 'almost-drop' season. The positive atmosphere for games (home and away) but especially in the last few home games - Chelsea and Leeds - particularly was incredible and probably saved us.

As fans, we just knew the boys were trying their best.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Let's see what the r/coys braintrust are saying

...apparently we imagined that Ange's tactics were figured out by halfway through his first season and the results were tailing off, which justified his removal since it's not like he learned from this in his second

 

[Citizen Kane.]

This is from the Telegraph, so not a serious source, but still... (and excuse the personal rant!)

I find this all quite concerning - and agree with CK, some of these players sound like complete melts!

I don't as a rule agree with booing the team or individual during games. Not sure that it helps anyone.

But fans equally have every right to react when they turn up to games - at great personal expense - and regularly get presented with a half-assed performance by individuals earning more in a week than they do in 100 weeks! Saturday was not a one-off by any means: there have been at least 4 equally lazy, uncommitted performances this PL season alone, although none worse than in 3 London derbies.

Fans can generally take defeat ok and will continue to support the players if they feel the team is trying their best. If the problem is a club management /ownership issue then any protests will be before and after games.

But when else can fans actually voice their concerns about the apparent lack of effort by the players themselves?

And as for the reaction to the Vicario **** up, it's not like this was a one-off. He has made a habit over the last couple of years of making stupid errors of judgement that have either cost goals or brought unnecessary pressure on the team. The reaction two days ago was I think a culmination of things in his case - compounded by the appalling start to the game.

I think these overpaid Prima Donna's need to STFU, put on their Big Boy pants and do their talking on the pitch. It is interesting to note that it was 19 yr old Bergvall who took the responsibility on and off the pitch last weekend, rather than the so-called experienced Porro (and others). Lucas was rightly immune from fan criticism against Fulham.

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Something the club and players fail to appreciate is that the poor performances and results have been pretty much the norm since March 2023. Apart from that 10-game blip under Ange, we've been consistently appalling during that time.

And of course, the salient points of that same time period is that ticket prices have been raised twice and we have sold all of our best players and not replaced them.

There are only two ways to fix this.

1) Build a squad worth the entrance fee to watch.
2) Acknowledge that our squad is no better in quality to the likes of Brighton, Palace, Villa, Brentford, and lower the ticket prices to match theirs.

Right now the club is treating fans like those mugs who go to posh restaurants and pay £50 for a haute cuisine hors d'oeuvres that consists of a few sticks of grilled asparagus
in olive oil arranged into the initials of some pretentious chef.

 

[SarrMan]

The players problem seems to be they have no urgency or awareness of any danger.

So many goals recently have been from not getting out to close down urgently enough or having no urgency with the ball at our feet in the box. then the second goal Saturday, Vicario makes a terrible clearance straight to a Fulham player yet takes a leisurely jog back to his goal and none of the 3 players between vic and the goal think to drop back onto the line.

let’s not forget we could easily have been 4 down at half-time (again, would have been down to another shot from the edge of a box and another Porro howler). It looked much more likely Fulham would score 2 more rather than us get 2 back in that first half. You then get to half-time and the atmosphere is as bad as ever.

To be fair it did seem to pick up in the second half especially once we got the goal back but then you’re getting just as angry at the constant time wasting and as usual, inability of a referee to do anything about it.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

The players problem seems to be they have no urgency or awareness of any danger.

So many goals recently have been from not getting out to close down urgently enough or having no urgency with the ball at our feet in the box. then the second goal Saturday, Vicario makes a terrible clearance straight to a Fulham player yet takes a leisurely jog back to his goal and none of the 3 players between vic and the goal think to drop back onto the line.

let’s not forget we could easily have been 4 down at half-time (again, would have been down to another shot from the edge of a box and another Porro howler). It looked much more likely Fulham would score 2 more rather than us get 2 back in that first half. You then get to half-time and the atmosphere is as bad as ever.

To be fair it did seem to pick up in the second half especially once we got the goal back but then you’re getting just as angry at the constant time wasting and as usual, inability of a referee to do anything about it.

1) Complete lack of on field leadership. Romero was an awful choice as captain. In his absence, Micky is too young and impetuous to wear the armband. There is a real paucity of options though.

2) Too many players who think the win in Bilbao elevates them to hero status and exonerates them of any and all subsequent mistakes. This came across very, very clearly in Porro's post, which I found to be arrogant and tone deaf.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

1) Complete lack of on field leadership. Romero was an awful choice as captain. In his absence, Micky is too young and impetuous to wear the armband. There is a real paucity of options though.

2) Too many players who think the win in Bilbao elevates them to hero status and exonerates them of any and all subsequent mistakes. This came across very, very clearly in Porro's post, which I found to be arrogant and tone deaf.

It's ironic that IMO there are only two players who stand out as potential captain-material: one of those is a loanee (Palhinha) and the other doesn't get a game these days and is at the end of his career (Davies).
Beyond that you are looking at 'potentials' - who Micky could be but isn't now and the likes of Bergvall, who will no doubt fit the bill in a ccouple of years - when he has moved on to Madrid or Barca!
The fact that the likes of Bentancur and Madison don't get a serious mention for that role says a lot too....

 

[The Changing Man]

Our chronic inability to pass the ball with any authority is what worries me the most about our play. There seem to be periods in every match where we frequently give the ball away from seemingly simple passes, either playing the ball straight to the opposition or worse still straight out of play.

Our chance creation is appalling mainly we cross the ball and fail to make first contact in the box, we have virtually no one playing through balls either from the back or from midfield, no one plays a 'a clever pass' that may create an opening for a player running through, Bergvall played one on Saturday and it resulted in a goal. I know that Xavi is looking far from promising but he and Bergvall are the only players that possess that ability until Kulu and Madders are back and we need to get him in the team and hopefully build his confidence.

We are currently even more predictable under Frank than we were under Ange.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Our chronic inability to pass the ball with any authority is what worries me the most about our play. There seem to be periods in every match where we frequently give the ball away from seemingly simple passes, either playing the ball straight to the opposition or worse still straight out of play.

Our chance creation is appalling mainly we cross the ball and fail to make first contact in the box, we have virtually no one playing through balls either from the back or from midfield, no one plays a 'a clever pass' that may create an opening for a player running through, Bergvall played one on Saturday and it resulted in a goal. I know that Xavi is looking far from promising but he and Bergvall are the only players that possess that ability until Kulu and Madders are back and we need to get him in the team and hopefully build his confidence.

We are currently even more predictable under Frank than we were under Ange.

Frank's system at Brentford relied heavily on wing play, emphasising a broad variety of different crosses into the box. To do this he favours having a natural LB and an inverted winger on each flank (a la Kudus + Porro), to allow for in or out-swinging crosses at any moment. His 4-3-3 system has never really had space in it for a traditional #10, which is why I think we're seeing Simons struggle and also why Bergvall seems to play as deep as the other CMs when he starts.

It also calls into question the fact that we went into the season without like-for-like cover for Udogie, and without replacing Son.