Confirmed: Will Still sacked

[Deserana]

Without his goals we wouldn't have got promoted last time, he's a vital player for us who plays better at the lower level.
I don't think that he has deserved to be dropped is the answer to your point.

Except that's not my point... My point is that he is one of the most experienced players in the team and he is one of many that has not improved and that he has no incentive to and that this issue is clear throughout the club. He had a decent championship season, I say decent because even by his own standards he has done better at other clubs in the same league.

My point is that if our most experienced player can play without fear despite poor performances then the players who are really playing bad are just going to follow suit and that infects the whole club. And we very much feel like a football club full of players that don't give a **** even if we get battered 5-0 every match.

Armstrong is one of our better players this season. He is also not having a great season. Both things can be true.

 

[Saints_Alive]

Except that's not my point... My point is that he is one of the most experienced players in the team and he is one of many that has not improved and that he has no incentive to and that this issue is clear throughout the club. He had a decent championship season, I say decent because even by his own standards he has done better at other clubs in the same league.

My point is that if our most experienced player can play without fear despite poor performances then the players who are really playing bad are just going to follow suit and that infects the whole club. And we very much feel like a football club full of players that don't give a **** even if we get battered 5-0 every match.

Armstrong is one of our better players this season. He is also not having a great season. Both things can be true.

I don't think you can accuse him of not caring was my main point and we disagree fundamentally about him not having a great season, we could do with some others chipping some goals.

 

[hotbovril]

It can sometimes be hard to quantify precisely what is missing in a team's performances. At the moment, I don't think that's the case with us. It's very easy to quantify. Elsewhere I made a point about Shea Charles in his national jersey and how that team of youngsters just go at it hammer and tongs. I watched Stockport County eviscerate Port Vale last night and just sat there thinking that they would quite comfortably have done the same to us, a supposed promotion favourite in the division above with resources they can only dream of. We do not play on the front foot, our first thought is never attack, when we do attack, we fail to support those who are, our passing is absolutely woeful (and an endless source of frustration for me,) we lack leadership, we are frail both physically and mentally and we are currently being led by a guy who appears to be completely out of his depth. It simply doesn't matter what level you are at, moving a defence out of shape is easy if five of your attackers and midfielders sprint towards the opposition goal simultaneously. That's how you play aggressively and how you bully opponents and create clear chances. We on the other hand are wedded to that god awful possession based malaise that's proven ineffective for all who have tried it outside of the elite clubs. Will a new manger be able to instil a change that sees us revert to the marauding style we employed under Poch, Koeman and early Ralph? Well I don't see why not and I don't see why we shouldn't be doing just that.

 

[Deserana]

It can sometimes be hard to quantify precisely what is missing in a team's performances. At the moment, I don't think that's the case with us. It's very easy to quantify. Elsewhere I made a point about Shea Charles in his national jersey and how that team of youngsters just go at it hammer and tongs. I watched Stockport County eviscerate Port Vale last night and just sat there thinking that they would quite comfortably have done the same to us, a supposed promotion favourite in the division above with resources they can only dream of. We do not play on the front foot, our first thought is never attack, when we do attack, we fail to support those who are, our passing is absolutely woeful (and an endless source of frustration for me,) we lack leadership, we are frail both physically and mentally and we are currently being led by a guy who appears to be completely out of his depth. It simply doesn't matter what level you are at, moving a defence out of shape is easy if five of your attackers and midfielders sprint towards the opposition goal simultaneously. That's how you play aggressively and how you bully opponents and create clear chances. We on the other hand are wedded to that god awful possession based malaise that's proven ineffective for all who have tried it outside of the elite clubs. Will a new manger be able to instil a change that sees us revert to the marauding style we employed under Poch, Koeman and early Ralph? Well I don't see why not and I don't see why we shouldn't be doing just that.

I feel like you largely hit the nail on the head, the only thing I would add is that our selling philosophy unfortunately made all of this inevitable. We lack leadership but we only lack leaders because we have sold anyone and everyone that would be considered a leader, because our philosophy is seemlingly to sell the best players.

I usually get countered with “every club sells their best players”. No. Every club maybe sells one or two of their best players. We sell anyone good. Massive difference. Unfortunately you can’t build anything if you sell your best assets every two years. Or in Matheus Fernandes case, one ****ing year. If you can’t even keep a consistent, experienced spine, you are ****ed. And that’s why we now look at a squad full of very young, very inexperienced players, all of which only have Jack ****ing Stephens, Alex McCarthy and Adam Armstrong to look at for leadership. All of which are not exactly club stalwarts themselves and more just the ones that are left over from the other **** and are seasoned specialists in failure.

The turnaround this club needs will take 3/4 years and a consistent squad of players, which we will never get because SR want to sell anything the moment they turn a profit. This is why Tyler Dibling is a whopping red flag for me. A 19 year old academy graduate with strong potential is exactly the kind of player we should have been looking to build around. Not sell to the highest bidder. So what now? Buy a 20 year old, watch him finally start looking good at 21/22 and then sell him when he has 3 months of good form? Because that is exactly what will happen. And it’s exactly why the current state and the future of this club is so bleak.

To me it feels inevitable that Damien Downs will start hitting form eventually and after a good 3/4 month spell he will shipped off at the next available window and then we have start from the beginning again. I’ve equated it before to a bricklayer who, whenever he turns around, someone smashes the wall he’s trying to build. That’s what being a manager at Southampton Football Club must feel like.

Until we have some owners and a manager with an actual long term structure that involves building a squad, get used to what he have because it isn’t going to stop, we aren’t set up as a club like that.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

I feel like you largely hit the nail on the head, the only thing I would add is that our selling philosophy unfortunately made all of this inevitable. We lack leadership but we only lack leaders because we have sold anyone and everyone that would be considered a leader, because our philosophy is seemlingly to sell the best players.

I usually get countered with “every club sells their best players”. No. Every club maybe sells one or two of their best players. We sell anyone good. Massive difference. Unfortunately you can’t build anything if you sell your best assets every two years. Or in Matheus Fernandes case, one ****ing year. If you can’t even keep a consistent, experienced spine, you are ****ed. And that’s why we now look at a squad full of very young, very inexperienced players, all of which only have Jack ****ing Stephens, Alex McCarthy and Adam Armstrong to look at for leadership. All of which are not exactly club stalwarts themselves and more just the ones that are left over from the other **** and are seasoned specialists in failure.

The turnaround this club needs will take 3/4 years and a consistent squad of players, which we will never get because SR want to sell anything the moment they turn a profit. This is why Tyler Dibling is a whopping red flag for me. A 19 year old academy graduate with strong potential is exactly the kind of player we should have been looking to build around. Not sell to the highest bidder. So what now? Buy a 20 year old, watch him finally start looking good at 21/22 and then sell him when he has 3 months of good form? Because that is exactly what will happen. And it’s exactly why the current state and the future of this club is so bleak.

To me it feels inevitable that Damien Downs will start hitting form eventually and after a good 3/4 month spell he will shipped off at the next available window and then we have start from the beginning again. I’ve equated it before to a bricklayer who, whenever he turns around, someone smashes the wall he’s trying to build. That’s what being a manager at Southampton Football Club must feel like.

Until we have some owners and a manager with an actual long term structure that involves building a squad, get used to what he have because it isn’t going to stop, we aren’t set up as a club like that.

Brighton seem to be doing okay and they have the same model and regularly sell their top players.

Bournemouth sold their entire defence in the summer... everything looks pretty rosy for them though.

People moan about selling players but it has nothing to do with why we are in this mess. Every club in world football, apart from the exception of a handful of the biggest clubs in the world, will always sell their best players if big money comes in.

How you reinvest that money, in terms of both playing and non-playing staff, is the key and that is why we are failing.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I think Will Still has done ok. The football is bettet and the acquisitions this season have been ok. I am not disappointed as i expected the season to pan out as it has. It is not a disaster and we seem to be playing better. Still has not been helped by the striker situation but i am not upset by the home results as we have competed against better teams and have been unfortunate against the likes of Swansea.

I find the criticism to be much too severe. Still needs to be given the whole of the season to stamp his identity. Calls for his head are premature and unreasonable. He will turns things around but he needs time to do so. I cannot understand the lack of appreciation. This season is all about stability. Let the bloke get on with his job. I think he is actually ok but he will be better next season.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

I think Will Still has done ok. The football is bettet and the acquisitions this season have been ok. I am not disappointed as i expected the season to pan out as it has. It is not a disaster and we seem to be playing better. Still has not been helped by the striker situation but i am not upset by the home results as we have competed against better teams and have been unfortunate against the likes of Swansea.

I find the criticism to be much too severe. Still needs to be given the whole of the season to stamp his identity. Calls for his head are premature and unreasonable. He will turns things around but he needs time to do so. I cannot understand the lack of appreciation. This season is all about stability. Let the bloke get on with his job. I think he is actually ok but he will be better next season.

In what world is us being 20th a quarter of the way into the season not a disaster?

And you say the football is better, better than what?

 

[One of yer Norvern Saints]

Felt like bucking the current trend

is that like Muffin’ the Mule (Applogies to any reader under70)?

 

[metalmonkey80]

is that like Muffin’ the Mule (Applogies to any reader under70)?

I'm aware of the existence of said character but nowhere near old enough to have watched it (even my parents aren't).

What was worse is that my man-child mind went to the gutter on reading "muffin"....

 

[Ian Thumwood]

In what world is us being 20th a quarter of the way into the season not a disaster?

And you say the football is better, better than what?

We won't finish 20th. Saints have been unlucky and should be a few places higher up than we are. Relegation would be a disaster but it is not going to happen.

Promotion was never on the cards either. This season is about stopping the rot. We have been unlucky this season. Fans just need to be patient. I believe Still will turn things around.

The home games have generally been entertaining other than.the Pompey match which was a turgid affair which we met our match. We need to get behind Will Still and not continually be on his case. He feels like the first real improvement since the early days of Hassenhutl. Do not understand the negativity. He has a really difficult job and has met the realistic exoectations so far. Not disappointed by him. More upset by the unreal expectations of fans.

We need to stick by Still . I think he was a good appointment. Would be upset to see him binned.

 

[tomw24]

We won't finish 20th. Saints have been unlucky and should be a few places higher up than we are. Relegation would be a disaster but it is not going to happen.

Promotion was never on the cards either. This season is about stopping the rot. We have been unlucky this season. Fans just need to be patient. I believe Still will turn things around.

The home games have generally been entertaining other than.the Pompey match which was a turgid affair which we met our match. We need to get behind Will Still and not continually be on his case. He feels like the first real improvement since the early days of Hassenhutl. Do not understand the negativity. He has a really difficult job and has met the realistic exoectations so far. Not disappointed by him. More upset by the unreal expectations of fans.

We need to stick by Still . I think he was a good appointment. Would be upset to see him binned.

What?

 

[Ian Thumwood]

What?

I think you mean "pardon."

 

[tomw24]

I think you mean "pardon."

No I definitely mean "what" as in what the hell are you on about? How on earth is being 20th in the league meeting anyone's expectations?

 

[SAINTOSPREY]

I think you mean "pardon."

Yes, One what is not very bright! I predicted we would be 13th and got ridiculed, it's going to be a struggle to get that.

 

[Lovelocum]

We won't finish 20th. Saints have been unlucky and should be a few places higher up than we are. Relegation would be a disaster but it is not going to happen.

Promotion was never on the cards either. This season is about stopping the rot. We have been unlucky this season. Fans just need to be patient. I believe Still will turn things around.

The home games have generally been entertaining other than.the Pompey match which was a turgid affair which we met our match. We need to get behind Will Still and not continually be on his case. He feels like the first real improvement since the early days of Hassenhutl. Do not understand the negativity. He has a really difficult job and has met the realistic exoectations so far. Not disappointed by him. More upset by the unreal expectations of fans.

We need to stick by Still . I think he was a good appointment. Would be upset to see him binned.

Promotion not on the cards? For a newly relegated side and one of the richest in the league?

Its not going to get any easier if (when) we don’t get promoted this season.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

No I definitely mean "what" as in what the hell are you on about? How on earth is being 20th in the league meeting anyone's expectations?

Do you really think we will finish 20th ?

Still is not going to sort the problems out in one season let alone 3 months. He needs time. Replacing a manager every 6 months will not solve anything.

You youngsters are always impatient.

 

[Deserana]

Brighton seem to be doing okay and they have the same model and regularly sell their top players.

Bournemouth sold their entire defence in the summer... everything looks pretty rosy for them though.

People moan about selling players but it has nothing to do with why we are in this mess. Every club in world football, apart from the exception of a handful of the biggest clubs in the world, will always sell their best players if big money comes in.

How you reinvest that money, in terms of both playing and non-playing staff, is the key and that is why we are failing.

Brighton and Bournemouth have managed to stay afloat and both have had large periods of being very shaky with Bournemouth being relegated in 2020 and Brighton facing relegation between 2020/23, though they are doing well again now. But to say it has no impact is strange. Selling well is an aspect to it but we’ve sold so many more overall, especially when taking the Poch/Koeman era into account. They were basically mass turnovers every seasons at that point. Brighton have consistently kept a few key players in Solly March and Lewis Dunk over the years. Bournemouth with Adam Smith and Lewis Cook. Our longest serving players? Jack Stephens and Alex McCarthy, two players who have been in and out of the team for years.

To not have a single long serving player, who has played for us consistently for 5+ years suggests to me you have simply sold every single good player. That’s not just selling your best players. That’s selling everyone.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Yes, One what is not very bright! I predicted we would be 13th and got ridiculed, it's going to be a struggle to get that.

I would settle for 13th as long as we finiah above Portsmouth. Topping Pompey will constitute a good season. We canpick up the baton and go for promotion in 26 /27. Not being in play offs next season will be a disaster. Not being in play offs this season should have been anticipated.

 

[Deserana]

I would settle for 13th as long as we finiah above Portsmouth. Topping Pompey will constitute a good season. We canpick up the baton and go for promotion in 26 /27. Not being in play offs next season will be a disaster. Not being in play offs this season should have been anticipated.

I actually do agree with this sentiment however with the massive caveat that the performances need to improve. If we play like this and eek out a couple wins and come 14th while Pompey are 15th then I will be calling it a disaster.

 

[tomw24]

Do you really think we will finish 20th ?

Still is not going to sort the problems out in one season let alone 3 months. He needs time. Replacing a manager every 6 months will not solve anything.

You youngsters are always impatient.

No I don't but you're saying we should be satisfied with being 20th currently which is nonsense.