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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

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    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    I think you are an idealist if you think that way. Crimes against prostitutes are rarely investigated. Serial killers who murder prostitutes get away with it a lot longer. When I was at school, there were girls who got passed around the drug dealers. The exact same thing we are now calling grooming gangs. It has always happened and always been happening. And yes, society cares less about them than ‘normal’ kids. You are deluding yourself - and going against every statistic - if you thing otherwise.

    If well to do kids were being abused, nobody’s fear of racism would have prevented action being taken. It is an endemic issue in our society. And I am sorry but this national inquiry will not lead to one person being prosecuted.

    Why? Because proving someone made a mistake, or a bad call, is not proof of criminality. Proving that will be incredibly hard, especially as it is proven that the system the bad cogs worked in was deeply flawed.
     
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  2. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    These weren't "bad calls" or "mistakes." People were told exactly what was happening. Other people having been told decided not to act and told others not to act or how they should act. That is in no way bad calls/mistakes that is gross misconduct in office whether they be a police chief that told his police what to do or that it wasn't what was described or a council official that chose not to act on information given to them. It might not be law to report a violent crime but they were reported and ignored.

    Anyway reading on this "national inquiry" is not a 10 year inquiry the way we think of inquiries. It is a national commission which will oversee local inquiries but with statutory powers. I guess that means that this commission will setup the local inquiries and guide them, using its own powers to force people to attend if they refuse, which they could have done with a local inquiry. I guess it also means the national commission can stop local authorities in essence investigating themselves and coming up with "nothing to see here." It is also time limited.

    However the headline the other day was her stating in black and white that:

    "Despite reviews, reports and inquiries raising questions about men from Asian or Pakistani backgrounds grooming and sexually exploiting young white girls, the system has consistently failed to fully acknowledge this or collect accurate data so it can be examined effectively.

    "Instead, flawed data is used repeatedly to dismiss claims about 'Asian grooming gangs' as sensationalised, biased or untrue.


    Which like when the politicos dismissed people's real life experiences of being replaced by migrant agencies as being untrue just makes sentiment worse. By trying to deny something was true it makes it worse when it is actually true. Even yesterday the Labour team were trying to play with words around the report despite Baroness Casey talking about flawed data, they continue to do so.

    And when media zoned in on the Yvette Cooper statement of:
    "Her report concludes that further local investigations are needed but that they should be directed and overseen by a national commission with statutory inquiry powers."
    they asked Does this mean Whitehall and Westminster will avoid investigation? Are they exempt? The response from No10 and those that have been questioned so far on the Labour side of things has not been clear!!!

    But at at least the last page of walls of text seem to have been actually addressed, It isn't a 10 year inuiry it is an overseeing body. It will be local inquiries but unable to just mark their own homework and say A++ Will it solely focus on local level and ignore everything else that went on up the tree as far as it goes? Hopefully but that is not clear.

    I would like to point out something glaring in what I did read though. This section here from Yvette Cooper:
    Finally, Baroness Casey describes ways in which patterns of grooming gang child sexual exploitation are changing.
    Including evidence of rape and sexual exploitation taking place in street gangs and drug gangs, that combine criminal and sexual exploitation.
    I do not believe that this kind of exploitation has been sufficiently investigated.

    Maybe the wording but she makes it sound like she is surprised and also she clearly says "are changing" as if this is something new. Surely she does not believe this despite living in a bubble? County Lines has been a big problem in the North, in the very places the grooming gangs problem is in for a long time and it involve young boys and girls. Often they are at the mercy of their "boss" for a couple of days. Again looked after, "cared for" but used and abused.

    My eldest son was disappearing for days at a time when he was 16 and months at a time 17-19!! Not saying he was sexually abused at all but I hate to think what he would have seen in that time but he is home and safe now aged 20, albeit a bit part time hippy, yoga, breathwork, mediation, organic foods, homeopathy and positive vibes man so a bit crazy but safe and harmless. There is no way that either Baroness Casey "discovered" that grooming gangs are changing nor that Yvette Cooper was that naive that she though County Lines was just about using runners for delivering drugs around and job done!

    Far from "are" changing it is a different aspect entirely when you get to County Lines and Gang Culture which they entwine together in a lot of cases. Initiation gang bangs for girls to get into the gang. These politicians talk as if they have no idea how widespread this country's problems are at the moment. I have never known drugs to be more accessible than they are these days and no-one hides it. The estates stink of weed but police don't do anything and where's there's so much weed there's gonna be plenty of everything else. County Lines is a big problem in places like Lincolnshire or right across the Midlands upward. If your kid has old train tickets in their pockets you can guess what they've been up to. And surely not hard to see kids on their own on trains in school times because they don't travel in groups.
     
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    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    My best mate works county lines. It is not just a northern thing. Portsmouth has real issues with it. And, again, criminals prey on kids in care because everybody ‘expects’ them to disappear and drop out. County lines and sexual grooming are two sides of a coin. The exact same process is involved and the exact same types of kid. But most people don’t have sympathy for the hoody dealing on their street corner. And the police have historically seen both county lines kids and sex workers as problems rather than victims.

    So, again, I say grooming gangs are nothing new. Authority brushing the issues of the impoverished youths under the carpet is nothing new. Distrusting young people when they accuse adults is nothing new. Cover ups are nothing new.

    So what is new?
     
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  4. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say it was "just a Northern thing" nor meant to imply that. I meant that here the problem is off the scale and for the most part un-noticed by anyone other than the odd mention by the police etc.

    I don't know why you keep returning to grooming gangs being nothing new. I think we all agree on that. The problem is not that "this is a new thing". The problem is that it was ignored by those that should not be ignoring these things for "political" reasons. The crux is that latter part! That people that should have been there to do what they can............didn't do what they could, despite having the details in front of them, not because they saw these girls as "throwaway white trash" but because they thought more about "sounding racist" or "not wanting to stir the pot!"

    It is that latter part that is why this has blown up as it has. Because authorities "chose" not to act!

    No-one is suggesting that it would put a stop to grooming gangs, just like prosecuting murderers does not mean there will be no more murders, however it should have been taken through the process as and when it came up and not ignored for political reasons.

    Saying nothing is new is not a good enough answer. That is dismissive. Just because it has happened since humans existed in communities does not mean it should be allowed to be ignored when cases are reported to those that should be acting on information they are given. Saying "its nothing new" does not excuse the authoritiies actions.
     
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  5. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    MP's have passed a vote backing assisted dying. I think I agree with this. I do think people who are terminally ill and have a really poor prognosis and quality of life should be able to have control over when they pass away.
     
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    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    Did I say it did?

    Can you point out where I have said those who ignore this are doing a good job?

    The key difference between us is I think the racial aspect is a divisive distraction from the key issue - the lack of respect for ‘white trash’, where you somehow don’t believe that there is such a thing. That to me is pure madness. The truth here is that these kids are seen as less valuable than other members of the community, and tend not to be believed when they accuse anybody at all. The fact this has conflated with pre-existing racial tension has elevated it in the public consciousness.

    Pakistani Grooming Gangs

    Islamophobia is a woke disease

    It’s a cultural thing


    Sorry, but all three of these phrases are all over Twitter. Why? Because othering human vileness is what humans do.
     
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  7. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Tldr <ok>


    Ps, which unpatriotic government privatised the Royal Mail?
     
    #55747
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  8. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Don't really have an opinion on this myself, but aren't doctors supposed to take an oath to do no harm? I wonder how that squares with assisted dying?
     
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  9. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

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    TLDR: Thatcher refused to privatise BR. The Pro EU lobby that ended up ousting her forced her hand in the last weeks and it was them wot pushed the deal through.

    PO: Vince Cable! It was in the Lib Dem manifesto, although Blair did try to sell it to the Dutch in 2003/4 and then opened it up to competition in his last term but reneged on actually privatising it under pressure from the unions, which disappointed Peter Mandelson who was 100% behind the attempt.

    If you're looking for a Tory then look no further than Pro EU arch remainer and hero to you all when it suited, Michael Heseltine who was pushing for it from 1993 onward.

    Should it have been subsidised forever? Who uses Royal Mail? Hermes is cheaper and includes tracking for anything other than letters and the only post I get is uber amounts of junk from politicians or numerous GP surveys or adverts.
     
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  10. It'sOnlyAGame

    It'sOnlyAGame Well-Known Member

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    Most people would agree with some form of assisted dying but this bill falls short on safeguards. Any attempt to include amendments were kicked into touch and Leadbeater seemed determined to get this through at any cost. I really don't believe our elected representatives have listened to the concerns raised or for some unknown reason they favour euthanasia of the NHS draining sick people, pension taking old people, or benefit recipient people. The expanse of this procedure in Canada to include the disabled, drug users and those with mental health issues should make people very wary of how this bill will develop.

    This week has been a bad one for human life. Although abortions in this country have always been illegal, it was generally accepted that it could be done up to 24 weeks. Changes to the abortion laws as part of the Crime and Punishment Bill will now allow an expectant mother to abort a baby at any stage without prosecution. It would still be illegal for healthcare professionals to carry out an abortion past 24 weeks, but not so for the mother. The arguments about how developed a baby is at 24 weeks are now pretty well redundant because a fully formed baby can be aborted without punishment. I would think that both the pro and anti abortion lobby would be deeply concerned about this bill.
    This week we have seen bills introduced to legally end early life and late life all within the last 3 days.
     
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  11. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

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    I’m with Tom on this that I think I am on board, but not sure.
     
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  12. greensaint

    greensaint Well-Known Member

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    Yes, both bills have left me troubled.

    I understand people have sincere feelings on both sides of the assisted dying issue, but as it's been discussed and reported I've noticed a couple of things.

    Those in favour seem to be mostly middle class and/or celebrity people who actually would have little difficulty in accessing a way to end their life without involving others. They just seem to want attention at times. Many against seem to be disabled people who are concerned about (mostly indirect tbf) pressure they feel could be directed at them.

    I was horrified when the bill passed it's first stage, pictures of people punching the air and drinking champagne to celebrate. Horrible, disrespecful triumphalism.

    The bill is also one of the most impractical bits of lawmaking for decades. The NHS is not set up for this and little notice of those involved in patient care have been listened to. I can see people moving postcodes to get a positive outcome (as they see it).

    However Lawyers will make money I confidently predict.

    On the plus side the Welsh NHS have roused themselves to give me a date for my hip replacement, so my personal pain load may be reduced in the near future :)
     
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  13. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    Just watched this short video which is questioning if Sergio Gor, the man responsible for vetting people who work in the White House, is actually Sergey Goryachev from Saratova, Russia. It also claims that Gor has never been vetted for working in the White House, in the 5 months he has been there.

     
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  14. Libby

    Libby Derby County, we're coming for you

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    Mental that a protest group managed to access an RAF base. **** are they playing at.
     
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  15. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    At least can rest assured that the RAF are there to protect us all in the event of an attack.
     
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    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    I am all for allowing people to choose their own time and method of death. Do no harm should also mean not keeping people alive artificially after terrible injuries. It definitely shouldn’t mean: keep the patient alive at all costs.
     
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  17. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    In other words, basically, EU members should be able to maintain control of their own resources within their borders, but shouldn’t subsidise services that are competing with other members across the EU
     
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  18. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    That's the basis of many trade deals to avoid unfair competition. The EU countries have more individual freedoms than one would think if you give credence to much of the brexshit campaign.
     
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  19. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    Exposing the lies about Trump’s new mobile phone. I think I read that it would take about 5 years to build the infrastructure to make a mobile phone completely in the USA.


    THE Trump Organisation’s latest bit of tacky merchandise – the T1 smartphone – isn’t quite as stars-and-stripes as advertised.

    The $499 gold-plated handset is being marketed under the new Trump Mobile brand as a made-in-the-USA alternative to Apple’s iPhone 17.

    But eagle-eyed sleuths have already called foul on the internet, uncovering that images of the T1 – due to ship in September – show a Chinese-made Android device that has been given a MAGA makeover.

    What’s more, Trump’s team are flogging the gizmo for three times what the original costs on Amazon.

    The Trump Mobile network itself has been dubbed an “All American service”, though critics suggest that the only thing truly domestic about it is the mark-up. The Trump grift goes on…
     
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  20. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Oh what a surprise Trump the grifter tells lies.
     
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