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Science - It's life Jim but not as we know it...

Discussion in 'The Premier League' started by Treble, Feb 4, 2022.

  1. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Biden's closing speech on his presidency highlighted the dangers of the Oligarchs taking over in Trump's administration, with Elon Musk now with a seat alongside Trump, calling the shots, and an administration packed with billionaires. The US and the west has often criticised Russia for being puppets of the Oligarchs, and this is exactly what the US has now become. A place where enough $$$ will get you a seat in the Govt.

    Coupled with a massive erosion in credible media scrutiny, in favour of a platform for Twitter, Instagram and Facebook influencers to deliver the 'news' which is in turn controlled by Musk and Zukerberg who are themselves at the behest of 'what Trump wants'. It's a dangerous landscape for truth and justice. We've seen how Trump operates, paying off and silencing people who have the dirt on him and pardoning people who commit crimes in his favour.
     
    #2681
  2. brb

    brb CR250

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    Ffs. It's science thread, not politics. Fook off to the election thread.
     
    #2682
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  3. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    What if AI decides that to improve robots it builds sentience into them ?
     
    #2683
  4. Thus Spake Zarathustra

    Thus Spake Zarathustra GC Thread Terminator

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    All comes down to the eternal question about what consciousness is. Far, far, better minds than mine have wrestled with that one, my favourite being the Turing test for computers. But here's my take - you can't have consciousness without emotion, and thereby lies the danger. Any computer system that develops consciousness will inevitably develop an instinct that its own self-preservation - and to replicate - is its primary function, no matter what basic programming we start it off with.

    As far as we are aware, only biological life develops consciousness. But, really, really interesting stuff on this by Penrose though that blew my mind. I could easily be wrong on this. Is the universe itself conscious? Is it our consciousness that gives sentience to the cosmos (anthropic principle)?

    Bottom line is, if we deliberately develop consciousness in AI it will almost inevitably develop emotions, and with that will be self-preservation. But hey ho, they might be benign and keep us as pets - maybe in some sort of AI simulation. What? Could they already be doing so? :shocked:
     
    #2684
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  5. Thus Spake Zarathustra

    Thus Spake Zarathustra GC Thread Terminator

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    Not me this time - hope you noticed. I just mentioned that Musk is not an innovator. :emoticon-0107-sweat
     
    #2685
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  6. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    If we are giving AI the ability to improve upon itself, it could well reach a point where it builds sentience into itself. Consciousness and sentience is measured by neural activity, but we are already at the point where we are developing hybrid organic computer chips, so the measure of biological sentience might not be within the confines of how we've previously measured it (Have you seen the work of Cortical labs and the concepts of Wetware computers)

    I think the question 'if we deliberately develop consciousness in AI' might not be one that we as humans actually undertake, as it might be taken out of our hands by AI itself.
     
    #2686

  7. Thus Spake Zarathustra

    Thus Spake Zarathustra GC Thread Terminator

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    Indeed. And if computers become quantum (they will) it is almost inevitable as that is what is believed probably happened in the primordial soup that gave way to RNA - all possibilities of chemical compounds and all that. Interesting question though - would that process still be 'chemistry' though, as even a computer relies on the dances of electrons? :bandit:
     
    #2687
  8. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

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    I mean... the cat is out the bag... we will eventually make AI with consciousness, but I fully believe we shouldn't. I feel it is unethical to do so, but... people being people, someone will do it... eventually.

    As much as AI has improved dramatically, I feel we're a long way from that. I think LLM and SLM are moves in the wrong direction to form consciousness.
     
    #2688
  9. brb

    brb CR250

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    I had noticed mate.
     
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  10. brb

    brb CR250

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    At this moment in time, I cannot see how humans can evolve in the very distant future, if we even make it that far, because at some point in time, everything will end.

    So that leaves a situation that something must change - what that must is we have no way of knowing, well unless there are religious scriptures telling us.

    The only way I can imagine here and now, is that we have to evolve into some form of part human part robot, which is where the consciousness bit would come from. Lots of people have artificial limbs these days, and other parts within our bodies.

    Robots can do things that humans can't, robots don't tire, except for their batteries.

    Yet even saying that Perserverance has now been on Mars and is still active after nigh on 4 years. Yes it needs humans on Earth, but it's at a place none of us can go. We are learning about it's capabilities, we are learning what parts will wearout or erode first - it needs no air, no fuel (food), no water, it will keep going until it's components die or we stop communicating with it....yes it needs energy of various sorts still.

    All of what happens on Mars, even if it seems pointless is educating us for the future, there next stage of advancement, but in reality it's nothing more than a trickle, the future will look at us and laugh at how useless we were, but it's all stepping stones of knowledge that will enable that future to mock us and be far more advanced themselves.

    Oh and let's not forget that other robot out there Voyager 1, it's been going for 50 years out into the abyss, expected to keep going until 2036, although the end as such is this year 2025.

    Once we get down to subatomic level what is anything, what is our purpose, why are we here...the odds of us even being here are ridiculous, that counts the same for every living thing on this planet...that's the point I realise there is something greater, where science intertwines with religion.

    When I grew up with the little that we knew about space as a kid, none of it made sense, I was even asking then, what is beyond, now I know more and there is much more beyond than we ever imagined, I know less! In reality as we know it, we are just going in circles, gathering more data, but the same questions we asked as kids, still remain unanswered.

    Although my questions now are more what is time, what role does energy play in our consciousness, our thought processes, how our brain relates to time, as an adult, and as a child, and how it relates to time after we are gone...memories of those left behind, deeper questions, far beyond space exploration, more the fate I believe in, is everything a mere calculation or premeditated is luck random or systematic....

    Groundhog Day!
     
    #2690
  11. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I think it's entirely possible the the cosmos is vastly more complex that we can currently imagine. Our human brains like to organise and categorise, in order that we can make sense of things, but science is already showing us that things can simultaneously be and not be at the same time. I think as a species we're at a point where we are beginning to realise that there will be questions.... that we don't even know are questions at the moment.

    i.e. We are at the stage where we know that we don't know a lot about the cosmos, but we're also at the stage where we don't even know that we don't know what other complexities are still to be discovered.
     
    #2691
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  12. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    With the advent of biochips, we're already building biological machines as such. The advantage AI would have over the millions of years that the primordial soup took to eventually organise to become simple living organisms, is that it would be able to distil all human knowledge (and learned AI knowledge) into perfecting what it perceived as the best way to create a sentient AI/Robot in the relative blink of an eye.

    I think the question would it still be chemistry, could become a question of semantics. AI would use all the tools at its disposal.

    One thing I ponder, is that in this world where AI has developed sentient robots, would the robots decide that they still needed humans ? Or would be we integrate ourselves into the world of AI to become super human robots hybrids ?

    Or would AI just keep us as pets lol
     
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  13. Thus Spake Zarathustra

    Thus Spake Zarathustra GC Thread Terminator

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    #2693
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  14. Sucky

    Sucky peoples champ & forum saviour

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    Biden and his son that he pardoned recently are dirty ****ing wronguns so **** what he says about anything.

    Old **** should just hurry up and die tbh
     
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  15. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    He's still right though.
     
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  16. Sucky

    Sucky peoples champ & forum saviour

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    He's got a cheek lol

    Like he's not taken funds from billionaires himself. It's how American politics works ffs
     
    #2696
  17. Thus Spake Zarathustra

    Thus Spake Zarathustra GC Thread Terminator

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  18. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Amazing pic of the comet Atlas taken from Argentina last night

    IMG_9562.jpeg
     
    #2698
  19. Spurlock

    Spurlock Homeboy Forum Moderator

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    amazing
     
    #2699
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  20. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Planetary alignment visible tonight again in the UK. Seen some cracking pics of Saturn.

    If my bro gets his telescope sorted out this week I’ll try and get some iPhone shots. Think it’s going stormy tomorrow though.
     
    #2700
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