Data Within Football

[Frazier the Lion]

It’s an interesting one, this. Roberts’ shooting is often wayward but I don’t think the shots he takes are particularly ridiculous individually. They are pretty much all strikes from outside the box that he takes on the run while cutting in. The bigger problem for me is that he’s not one for back post tap ins. He doesn’t even really get those chances most of the time - albeit he was unlucky with a presentable chance on Tuesday. Keeps his xG per shot very low.

Given his distance shooting isn’t the best then if it is seen as a problem it should be a case that a strong coach gives him clear parameters in which he can shoot to cut down on wasteful potshots. His ability to beat a man and his combination play remains important IMO. I don’t think he was as bad on Tuesday as is being made out in all honesty.

 

[clockstander]

It’s an interesting one, this. Roberts’ shooting is often wayward but I don’t think the shots he takes are particularly ridiculous individually. They are pretty much all strikes from outside the box that he takes on the run while cutting in. The bigger problem for me is that he’s not one for back post tap ins. He doesn’t even really get those chances most of the time - albeit he was unlucky with a presentable chance on Tuesday. Keeps his xG per shot very low.

Given his distance shooting isn’t the best then if it is seen as a problem it should be a case that a strong coach gives him clear parameters in which he can shoot to cut down on wasteful potshots. His ability to beat a man and his combination play remains important IMO. I don’t think he was as bad on Tuesday as is being made out in all honesty.

His shooting is abysmal was it against Oxford late on when he missed an open goal from inside the box, it did not matter then of course but thats irrelevant and one of his designated assists is a joke of a shot from close in that was actually not even going behind never mind hitting the target. We have carried him long enough imo.

 

[Robertson]

Roberts is a better player than he is showing atm. Just seems low on confidence and reluctant to take people on.

Are the coaches emphasising that we need to keep the ball better with a side effect that players are subconsciously taking less risks?

 

[Frazier the Lion]

Roberts is a better player than he is showing atm. Just seems low on confidence and reluctant to take people on.

Are the coaches emphasising that we need to keep the ball better with a side effect that players are subconsciously taking less risks?

Could well be. He combined pretty well with overlapping fullbacks on Tuesday, sliding a few passes in to create crossing opportunities. He also carried the ball a decent amount (which appears to be considered as different to dribbling/take-ons on the numbers) from my memory. Perhaps the plan against a very deep-lying opponent was to try to create opportunities from wide areas by breaking the lines with runners from deep? He was gonna struggle to directly beat a man and create much. After all, beating his fullback would have immediately left him confronted by the next defender. They basically played with a deep back 7 when defending.

 

[LD19SAFC]

Roberts is a better player than he is showing atm. Just seems low on confidence and reluctant to take people on.

Are the coaches emphasising that we need to keep the ball better with a side effect that players are subconsciously taking less risks?

That’s why his current spell is so frustrating. He was poor last season too, we need more it’s as simple as that.

 

[Robertson]

Could well be. He combined pretty well with overlapping fullbacks on Tuesday, sliding a few passes in to create crossing opportunities. He also carried the ball a decent amount (which appears to be considered as different to dribbling/take-ons on the numbers) from my memory. Perhaps the plan against a very deep-lying opponent was to try to create opportunities from wide areas by breaking the lines with runners from deep? He was gonna struggle to directly beat a man and create much. After all, beating his fullback would have immediately left him confronted by the next defender. They basically played with a deep back 7 when defending.

Good points / observations there.

 

[Southern A]

On Patrick Roberts, and without wanting to be mean / rude to him, there's a reason he had to drop down to League One at the age of 25.

He's talented, but he's not as "good" as he should be. This isn't bad form, this is just how effective he is as a professional footballer.

 

[alcoauth]

On Patrick Roberts, and without wanting to be mean / rude to him, there's a reason he had to drop down to League One at the age of 25.

He's talented, but he's not as "good" as he should be. This isn't bad form, this is just how effective he is as a professional footballer.

There's some harsh truth here. Personally I rate him and think he has done quite well this season, certainly better than last season, but he does not have the knack for scoring goals and hasn't since he was at Celtic as a young lad, he would be much much better served by trying to find a pass after cutting in rather than shooting, he has 7 goals in 104 appearances according to wikipedia, that is not a goal scorers record, but if he assists enough and contributes often to important moments in matches, it is acceptable.

 

[FellTop]

On Patrick Roberts, and without wanting to be mean / rude to him, there's a reason he had to drop down to League One at the age of 25.

He's talented, but he's not as "good" as he should be. This isn't bad form, this is just how effective he is as a professional footballer.

He could have played for a champ team, but wanted to come to us instead mate. He isnt a league 1 level player. Championship absolutely his level imo.

Anyway, just about to jump on a train to Sheff. Big day ahead for me And some footy. Roberts winner, screamer from 25 yards in injury time

 

[Frazier the Lion]

There's some harsh truth here. Personally I rate him and think he has done quite well this season, certainly better than last season, but he does not have the knack for scoring goals and hasn't since he was at Celtic as a young lad, he would be much much better served by trying to find a pass after cutting in rather than shooting, he has 7 goals in 104 appearances according to wikipedia, that is not a goal scorers record, but if he assists enough and contributes often to important moments in matches, it is acceptable.

That's a job for RLB in my view. I'm put in mind of Pep's instruction to Raheem Sterling. Didn't he basically ban him from shooting unless he was inside the area and within the width of the 6 yard box? It ultimately led to the most productive period in his City career.

 

[Southern A]

He could have played for a champ team, but wanted to come to us instead mate. He isnt a league 1 level player. Championship absolutely his level imo.

Anyway, just about to jump on a train to Sheff. Big day ahead for me And some footy. Roberts winner, screamer from 25 yards in injury time

Agreed Championship is his level. I'm just saying. The way some go on about him, and the way some EXPECT things from him, you'd think he'd be a borderline Premier League player. Whereas he absolutely isn't. He's mid-table Championship level for me.

 

[ned_werby]

Paddy Roberts is all fart and nee **** and I'd be amazed if the stats contradict that. What was it last season, 0 goals and 1 assist?

 

[SourPatch2]

Looked at more Roberts data and found some interesting things. All the below graphs include players who play in either attacking midfield, as a winger or as a striker and have played 5 or more games in total in them positions in the Championship.

Firstly we have a graph showing attempted take ons and successful take on %.

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Mayenda up near 50% success rate mainly playing as a striker is good going. Expected Roberts to be better in this category.

Next we will look at ball carrying. First graph looks at progressive carries and the distance of them. Second graph looks at carries into the final third and the penalty area.

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Mundle is superb at ball carrying. Constantly carrying the ball up the pitch over long distances and driving into dangerous areas.

Finally, the last two graphs look at touches in the final third compared to xG and xA numbers.

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Roberts and Mundle are pretty neck and neck in both of these. Would like better from both to be honest.

What I draw from this is that I don't think the general opinion on Roberts' dribbling ability matches what the numbers say. He's good at it don't get me wrong but i'm not sure it's enough to make up for his serious deficiencies.

 

[Disco down under]

Looked at more Roberts data and found some interesting things. All the below graphs include players who play in either attacking midfield, as a winger or as a striker and have played 5 or more games in total in them positions in the Championship.

Firstly we have a graph showing attempted take ons and successful take on %.

You must log in or register to see images

Mayenda up near 50% success rate mainly playing as a striker is good going. Expected Roberts to be better in this category.

Next we will look at ball carrying. First graph looks at progressive carries and the distance of them. Second graph looks at carries into the final third and the penalty area.

You must log in or register to see images

You must log in or register to see images

Mundle is superb at ball carrying. Constantly carrying the ball up the pitch over long distances and driving into dangerous areas.

Finally, the last two graphs look at touches in the final third compared to xG and xA numbers.

You must log in or register to see images

You must log in or register to see images

Roberts and Mundle are pretty neck and neck in both of these. Would like better from both to be honest.

What I draw from this is that I don't think the general opinion on Roberts' dribbling ability matches what the numbers say. He's good at it don't get me wrong but i'm not sure it's enough to make up for his serious deficiencies.

That makes for really really poor reading.

I guess it is one of them where the eye test is shown up, if indeed PR passes the eye test.

 

[Chunksafc]

Really interesting reading through this thread.

I am curious how much of this data is used by clubs when deciding to try and sign players and how much is data to appeal to fans? Any insight @SourPatch2

 

[SourPatch2]

Really interesting reading through this thread.

I am curious how much of this data is used by clubs when deciding to try and sign players and how much is data to appeal to fans? Any insight @SourPatch2

I think any data can be and has been used to decide transfers, it's mainly used to find players who may not stand out but do something great according to the numbers.

In terms of appealing to fans, i'm not sure it does. Feel like data is a very taboo subject in football so not sure if it's appealing.

 

[Chunksafc]

I think any data can be and has been used to decide transfers, it's mainly used to find players who may not stand out but do something great according to the numbers.

In terms of appealing to fans, i'm not sure it does. Feel like data is a very taboo subject in football so not sure if it's appealing.

It's quite an interesting subject, opens up lots of discussions, hence why I'm curious how much we see of the real data the clubs use?

As an example, do clubs really put much emphasis on xg or is that a Sky thing?

 

[SourPatch2]

It's quite an interesting subject, opens up lots of discussions, hence why I'm curious how much we see of the real data the clubs use?

As an example, do clubs really put much emphasis on xg or is that a Sky thing?

xG as a singular metric, no. But things like xG per shot is often used. I really hate xG league tables

 

[Chunksafc]

xG as a singular metric, no. But things like xG per shot is often used. I really hate xG league tables

Thanks mate, it's all fascinating and shows how much things have changed and continue to change

 

[SourPatch2]

Looked at more Roberts data and found some interesting things. All the below graphs include players who play in either attacking midfield, as a winger or as a striker and have played 5 or more games in total in them positions in the Championship.

Firstly we have a graph showing attempted take ons and successful take on %.

You must log in or register to see images

Mayenda up near 50% success rate mainly playing as a striker is good going. Expected Roberts to be better in this category.

Next we will look at ball carrying. First graph looks at progressive carries and the distance of them. Second graph looks at carries into the final third and the penalty area.

You must log in or register to see images

You must log in or register to see images

Mundle is superb at ball carrying. Constantly carrying the ball up the pitch over long distances and driving into dangerous areas.

Finally, the last two graphs look at touches in the final third compared to xG and xA numbers.

You must log in or register to see images

You must log in or register to see images

Roberts and Mundle are pretty neck and neck in both of these. Would like better from both to be honest.

What I draw from this is that I don't think the general opinion on Roberts' dribbling ability matches what the numbers say. He's good at it don't get me wrong but i'm not sure it's enough to make up for his serious deficiencies.

The numbers say Roberts isn't good enough. The eye test say Roberts isn't good enough. The output says Roberts isn't good enough. Time to replace him. Will post some replacement ideas in the next few days.