Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Trammers]

Meanwhile little Wes Streeting is getting his excuses in early, saying that the £ billions extra the NHS will get in the budget won’t actually help it improve, it will keep it about as **** as it is now. Streeting was shadow secretary for health from November 2021, but apparently didn’t do any prep during his time in opposition as we have to wait until ‘spring’ 2025 (I love the political medieval agricultural calendar) for his version of the NHS Ten Year Plan.

Apparently Labour were in opposition for 14 years but dont seem to have done any preparation for actually being in Government....

Fair play to the Speaker yesterday for doing the job of the official opposition and telling the Government some home truth's about the way they're treating the electorate.....

Has the thug who polaxed one of his constituants resigned yet?

 

[Stroller]

Apparently Labour were in opposition for 14 years but dont seem to have done any preparation for actually being in Government....

Fair play to the Speaker yesterday for doing the job of the official opposition and telling the Government some home truth's about the way they're treating the electorate.....

Has the thug who polaxed one of his constituants resigned yet?

Here you go...

Microsoft Word - Labour10yrplanTW.docx

 

[sb_73]

Here you go...

Microsoft Word - Labour10yrplanTW.docx

From 2015. The Governments NHS Plan, the one they will be measured against, is published next spring, after the summer wheat is sown, and when Heidi leads the cows to the high pasture.

 

[Stroller]

From 2015. The Governments NHS Plan, the one they will be measured against, is published next spring, after the summer wheat is sown, and when Heidi leads the cows to the high pasture.

Yeah, I was just pointing out to Trammers that they had actually been thinking about what they would do. I imagine they will want to take into account the consultation process that they're currently undertaking before publishing the final plan, which doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's not as if they'll be doing nothing in the mean time.

 

[Trammers]

Here you go...

Microsoft Word - Labour10yrplanTW.docx

So out of date........

Not updated in the last 9 years..... what have they been doing?

 

[Stroller]

So out of date........

Not updated in the last 9 years..... what have they been doing?

Well, they had plans back in 2010, but these were scrapped by the Tories. Do you think they should have published a new 10-year plan every year for 14 years in light of the latest disasters inflicted by the Tory government? You can't really have a detailed plan to fix something until you know how badly it's broken.

 

[Trammers]

Well, they had plans back in 2010, but these were scrapped by the Tories. Do you think they should have published a new 10-year plan every year for 14 years in light of the latest disasters inflicted by the Tory government? You can't really have a detailed plan to fix something until you know how badly it's broken.

TBH Strolls if they didn't know it was broken until they came into power they've not been taking much notice of things, yet Labour have been banging on for years as to how broken the NHS is...... I would have expected them to have an updated outline plan ready to go as and when they got into power that just needed a few tweeks here and there..... For balance I'd expect the Tories to have this in place for 5 or 10 years time.....
It shouldn't be a surprise that the NHS is a black hole for money, it has been for the past decades...... it's far too large and unwieldly to be run as 1 organisation, it requires a radical overhaul but I'd guess the unions would oppose that......
Maybe they need to start charging for services the same way we have to pay over here, €75 to see a doctor, €100 A &E visit, €50 routine dental..... exemptions for elderly and those that are dependent on medical intervention, small charge for perscriptions..... all unpopular and would lead to defeat at next election.... so unfortunately stuck with short term vision....

 

[kiwiqpr]

Well, they had plans back in 2010, but these were scrapped by the Tories. Do you think they should have published a new 10-year plan every year for 14 years in light of the latest disasters inflicted by the Tory government? You can't really have a detailed plan to fix something until you know how badly it's broken.

Maybe not a detailed plan but with all that time waiting to be in power more of a plan than asking the public for ideas

 

[BobbyD]

TBH Strolls if they didn't know it was broken until they came into power they've not been taking much notice of things, yet Labour have been banging on for years as to how broken the NHS is...... I would have expected them to have an updated outline plan ready to go as and when they got into power that just needed a few tweeks here and there..... For balance I'd expect the Tories to have this in place for 5 or 10 years time.....
It shouldn't be a surprise that the NHS is a black hole for money, it has been for the past decades...... it's far too large and unwieldly to be run as 1 organisation, it requires a radical overhaul but I'd guess the unions would oppose that......
Maybe they need to start charging for services the same way we have to pay over here, €75 to see a doctor, €100 A &E visit, €50 routine dental..... exemptions for elderly and those that are dependent on medical intervention, small charge for perscriptions..... all unpopular and would lead to defeat at next election.... so unfortunately stuck with short term vision....

Agree. Charge for use. Pensioners included.

I support your policy trammers

 

[kiwiqpr]

Agree. Charge for use. Pensioners included.

I support your policy trammers

we pay to see a doctor here
not sure how many missed appointments there are
assume you get a bill if you cant be bothered to turn up

 

[Stroller]

TBH Strolls if they didn't know it was broken until they came into power they've not been taking much notice of things, yet Labour have been banging on for years as to how broken the NHS is...... I would have expected them to have an updated outline plan ready to go as and when they got into power that just needed a few tweeks here and there..... For balance I'd expect the Tories to have this in place for 5 or 10 years time.....
It shouldn't be a surprise that the NHS is a black hole for money, it has been for the past decades...... it's far too large and unwieldly to be run as 1 organisation, it requires a radical overhaul but I'd guess the unions would oppose that......
Maybe they need to start charging for services the same way we have to pay over here, €75 to see a doctor, €100 A &E visit, €50 routine dental..... exemptions for elderly and those that are dependent on medical intervention, small charge for perscriptions..... all unpopular and would lead to defeat at next election.... so unfortunately stuck with short term vision....

I wouldn't pretend to know the answers Trammers, but I do think that more centralisation, rather than less, might improve things. Improved buying power seems like an obvious benefit and the internal market, whereby health authorities effectively compete with one another, seems to me to be a daft concept. I wouldn't support charging, except maybe for missed appointments. Short-termism is certainly a problem, though, and I would like to see Labour set up a cross-party group to take its plans forward and hopefully avoid a future Tory (or Reform) government ripping it all up and starting again.

 

[sb_73]

I wouldn't pretend to know the answers Trammers, but I do think that more centralisation, rather than less, might improve things. Improved buying power seems like an obvious benefit and the internal market, whereby health authorities effectively compete with one another, seems to me to be a daft concept. I wouldn't support charging, except maybe for missed appointments. Short-termism is certainly a problem, though, and I would like to see Labour set up a cross-party group to take its plans forward and hopefully avoid a future Tory (or Reform) government ripping it all up and starting again.

I think you, like me, need an NHS funding 101 Strolls. So there’s one here.

https://onenhsfinance.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/NHS-funding-101_Mar2023.pptx

The complexity is nuts, and expensive. When I first started working in the NHS (briefly) in 1987, each Health Authority got a direct payment from the DoH based on population size and health profile and planned and ran services based on that - acute hospitals, community care, mental health the lot except GP services because they are not NHS and subject to separate arrangements. By the time of my second, and final and equally brief stint in the NHS in 1995, primary care groups were ‘commissioning’ services with money given to them by the DoH, which lead to me wasting time negotiating the cost of physiotherapy appointments with equally disinterested GPs (spending time away from seeing patients) rather than doing my proper job trying to improve services. The old system seems a bit simpler and accountability was incredibly transparent, unlike now, where it sits with mysterious things called Integrated Care Boards.

I don’t think Streeting will change much here, he has already said that organisational change driven from the centre isn’t the answer. At least he said that in opposition.

 

[Stroller]

I think you, like me, need an NHS funding 101 Strolls. So there’s one here.

https://onenhsfinance.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/NHS-funding-101_Mar2023.pptx

The complexity is nuts, and expensive. When I first started working in the NHS (briefly) in 1987, each Health Authority got a direct payment from the DoH based on population size and health profile and planned and ran services based on that - acute hospitals, community care, mental health the lot except GP services because they are not NHS and subject to separate arrangements. By the time of my second, and final and equally brief stint in the NHS in 1995, primary care groups were ‘commissioning’ services with money given to them by the DoH, which lead to me wasting time negotiating the cost of physiotherapy appointments with equally disinterested GPs (spending time away from seeing patients) rather than doing my proper job trying to improve services. The old system seems a bit simpler and accountability was incredibly transparent, unlike now, where it sits with mysterious things called Integrated Care Boards.

I don’t think Streeting will change much here, he has already said that organisational change driven from the centre isn’t the answer. At least he said that in opposition.

That all seems horrendously complex. Surely this could be simplified.

 

[sb_73]

Hooray, it’s Budget Day, break out the champagne!

The only possible disaster awaiting Reeves is if she says something that hasn’t been relentlessly trailed for weeks and the markets don’t like it. The respect for Parliament has been exemplary. Expect some tautology around making budget cuts to many departments not being austerity. The most pointless response from the man who wishes he lost his seat at the election, little Rishi.

Analysis on the BBC from two correspondents (called for some reason ‘editors’ in the complex BBC journalism hierarchy) who are sad anoraks at the best of times and only got their jobs because others didn’t want them - Chris Mason and Faisal Islam. Nick Robinson, who despite being a Tory Man Urinals fan I rather like, lost his patience with meandering Faisal this morning and did his piece for him.

 

[Stroller]

Hooray, it’s Budget Day, break out the champagne!

The only possible disaster awaiting Reeves is if she says something that hasn’t been relentlessly trailed for weeks and the markets don’t like it. The respect for Parliament has been exemplary. Expect some tautology around making budget cuts to many departments not being austerity. The most pointless response from the man who wishes he lost his seat at the election, little Rishi.

Analysis on the BBC from two correspondents (called for some reason ‘editors’ in the complex BBC journalism hierarchy) who are sad anoraks at the best of times and only got their jobs because others didn’t want them - Chris Mason and Faisal Islam. Nick Robinson, who despite being a Tory Man Urinals fan I rather like, lost his patience with meandering Faisal this morning and did his piece for him.

Didn't it used to be a sackable offence for a Chancellor to disclose elements of the budget before they have been announced in parliament? I look forward to finding out what is actually in the budget and making up my mind accordingly. I won't be taking into account the views of the panel of Joe Public numbskulls that will undoubtedly be gathered together by the BBC in a pub in Reeves's constituency to give their views on the fact that they might individually be 80p a week worse off.

 

[sb_73]

Didn't it used to be a sackable offence for a Chancellor to disclose elements of the budget before they have been announced in parliament? I look forward to finding out what is actually in the budget and making up my mind accordingly. I won't be taking into account the views of the panel of Joe Public numbskulls that will undoubtedly be gathered together by the BBC in a pub in Reeves's constituency to give their views on the fact that they might individually be 80p a week worse off.

I’m most interested in what the detail of her changes to measuring government debt and other measures in the budget does to the interest payable on gilts. Most immediate measure available of confidence.

And whether non doms are even mentioned.

 

[Stroller]

I’m most interested in what the detail of her changes to measuring government debt and other measures in the budget does to the interest payable on gilts. Most immediate measure available of confidence.

And whether non doms are even mentioned.

Don't think some of your cynical assumptions have been borne out. Non-Doms scrapped, tax threshold freezes to end.

£40bn of extra taxes, mainly from ERs NI, but also from CGT, Inheritance Tax, abolishing Non-Doms and from VAT on public schools. No increases in income tax, EEs NI or VAT as promised. No return to austerity, in fact massive additional capital investment in public services made available by changing the debt rules. As you suggest, the markets' judgment on this rules change will be revealing, but overall I'm pretty happy with this budget. Would have preferred some form of Wealth Tax, for her to go further on CGT and probably not so far on ERs NI, but hey ho.

 

[sb_73]

Don't think some of your cynical assumptions have been borne out. Non-Doms scrapped, tax threshold freezes to end.

£40bn of extra taxes, mainly from ERs NI, but also from CGT, Inheritance Tax, abolishing Non-Doms and from VAT on public schools. No increases in income tax, EEs NI or VAT as promised. No return to austerity, in fact massive additional capital investment in public services made available by changing the debt rules. As you suggest, the markets' judgment on this rules change will be revealing, but overall I'm pretty happy with this budget. Would have preferred some form of Wealth Tax, for her to go further on CGT and probably not so far on ERs NI, but hey ho.

Non dom status will be replaced by something as yet unspecified. The Tory freeze on tax thresholds to 2028 is maintained, just not extended beyond then (election year!). 2% ‘efficiency’ budget cut across all government departments but it isn’t austerity. Lots of cash for capital spending, let’s see if it is delivered, creates taxable wealth and the interest on the borrowing to afford it is manageable. Well done on following the independent advice on the minimum wage, will be interesting to see how this plays out with the NI rises on employment and wage increase offers.

Quite a big gamble. They have to change their tune to something more positive now. Might not be budget issues but if they ‘don’t care about being popular’ they can finally grasp the social care nettle and address the very British issue of the massive surge of working age people not working and claiming benefit since the pandemic - not seen in other countries apparently.

 

[Stroller]

Non dom status will be replaced by something as yet unspecified. The Tory freeze on tax thresholds to 2028 is maintained, just not extended beyond then (election year!). 2% ‘efficiency’ budget cut across all government departments but it isn’t austerity. Lots of cash for capital spending, let’s see if it is delivered, creates taxable wealth and the interest on the borrowing to afford it is manageable. Well done on following the independent advice on the minimum wage, will be interesting to see how this plays out with the NI rises on employment and wage increase offers.

Quite a big gamble. They have to change their tune to something more positive now. Might not be budget issues but if they ‘don’t care about being popular’ they can finally grasp the social care nettle and address the very British issue of the massive surge of working age people not working and claiming benefit since the pandemic - not seen in other countries apparently.

Yeah, the minimum wage increases are welcome, as is the move towards a single adult rate. I also liked the announcement on Right to Buy, where discounts will be reduced and local authorities will be able to retain the full receipts from sales, promoting reinvestment in more housing. Hopefully some of these receipts might also be used to help the poorest pensioners affected by the withdrawal of the WFA (disappointingly not addressed in the budget). Not sure why fuel duty is something that never gets increased. Still, a penny off a pint!

As you say, their tune must change now. It's down to this government now and they will be judged on how these policies impact growth between now and 2029.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I see duty on private air travel is up. Fully expect Barry, 43, divorced from Skegness to be groomed into outrage over this.

I think within the confines of what they can feasibly do it sounds absolutely fine though I have no inclination whatsoever to spend much time reading about it.