Off Topic GENERAL ELECTION IS ON JULY 4 2024

[Milk..]

You said if someone is buying a house over 425 then prob aren’t struggling.

Not really the point though. It’s helping people buy houses for first time. Down south a 2 bed house is 300-350k, so that stamp duty will be massive help for a lot of first time buyers.

Problem is in north going to be a lot cheaper but you can’t set a policy that says if you’re north of Watford you can pay stamp duty over 200k but south that’s increased to £350k.

You could however pass a law saying if your house is above the median price in your county you pay stamp duty. And base the median on the median of all houses sold in the previous calendar year.

Although, I don't know that I would approve as it might drive more people to buy in already wealthy areas making people's holdings in those wealthy areas even more wealthy and increasing inequality.

 

[Zanjinho]

You said if someone is buying a house over 425 then prob aren’t struggling.

Not really the point though. It’s helping people buy houses for first time. Down south a 2 bed house is 300-350k, so that stamp duty will be massive help for a lot of first time buyers.

Problem is in north going to be a lot cheaper but you can’t set a policy that says if you’re north of Watford you can pay stamp duty over 200k but south that’s increased to £350k.

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[InBiscanWeTrust]

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How am I missing the point? Your point was moaning that 425k was way too high as anyone spending that isn’t in trouble financially. In that case where would you draw the line?

 

[saintanton]

How am I missing the point? Your point was moaning that 425k was way too high as anyone spending that isn’t in trouble financially. In that case where would you draw the line?

I imagine he's saying it's a typical Tory move in that it benefits people who are reasonably well off and does nothing to help people who aren't in that bracket and who struggle with everything - not just buying a house.
It's typical in that it tries to strengthen support amongst those whom the Tories consider their supporters but who might be wavering considering the current political climate.
Most less well-off people are unlikely to vote for Tories anyway, whatever the circumstances, because they don't anticipate policies designed to help them - and this proposal only reinforces that impression, It will cost the taxpayer to implement something that they have no possibility of benefitting from.

 

[Zanjinho]

I imagine he's saying it's a typical Tory move in that it benefits people who are reasonably well off and does nothing to help people who aren't in that bracket and who struggle with everything - not just buying a house.
It's typical in that it tries to strengthen support amongst those whom the Tories consider their supporters but who might be wavering considering the current political climate.
Most less well-off people are unlikely to vote for Tories anyway, whatever the circumstances, because they don't anticipate policies designed to help them - and this proposal only reinforces that impression, It will cost the taxpayer to implement something that they have no possibility of benefitting from.

Exactly

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I imagine he's saying it's a typical Tory move in that it benefits people who are reasonably well off and does nothing to help people who aren't in that bracket and who struggle with everything - not just buying a house.
It's typical in that it tries to strengthen support amongst those whom the Tories consider their supporters but who might be wavering considering the current political climate.
Most less well-off people are unlikely to vote for Tories anyway, whatever the circumstances, because they don't anticipate policies designed to help them - and this proposal only reinforces that impression, It will cost the taxpayer to implement something that they have no possibility of benefitting from.

But it doesn’t only benefit people in that group? Somekne buying a house for £150k will also benefit from it.

 

[Solid Air]

But it doesn’t only benefit people in that group? Somekne buying a house for £150k will also benefit from it.

how ?

 

[saintanton]

But it doesn’t only benefit people in that group? Somekne buying a house for £150k will also benefit from it.

They wouldn't, because it doesn't start until £250,000.
As I'm not in this market I had to look it up. There was, it seems, a temporary exemption for first-time buyers up to £425,000 introduced a couple of years ago which is due to expire. Sunak's pledge was to make it permanent.

What irritates me is the cynicism of politicians of all colours making badly thought out promises to try and grab votes just because an election is looming. Promises which send civil-servants scurrying to try and make viable. Often they aren't, and either the promise is reneged upon, or its implementation has a detrimental effect elsewhere.
Which is why this is still a typical Tory move imo - yes, all very nice giving first-time buyers a bit of a boost, but it costs money that perhaps could be put to better use elsewhere.
The high costs of food and energy, the collapse of the NHS, are all more fundamental issues to society at large.
All very well having a nice new home, but if you can't afford to heat and eat...

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

how ?

Because they won’t have to pay stamp duty

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

They wouldn't, because it doesn't start until £250,000.
As I'm not in this market I had to look it up. There was, it seems, a temporary exemption for first-time buyers up to £425,000 introduced a couple of years ago which is due to expire. Sunak's pledge was to make it permanent.

What irritates me is the cynicism of politicians of all colours making badly thought out promises to try and grab votes just because an election is looming. Promises which send civil-servants scurrying to try and make viable. Often they aren't, and either the promise is reneged upon, or its implementation has a detrimental effect elsewhere.
Which is why this is still a typical Tory move imo - yes, all very nice giving first-time buyers a bit of a boost, but it costs money that perhaps could be put to better use elsewhere.
The high costs of food and energy, the collapse of the NHS, are all more fundamental issues to society at large.
All very well having a nice new home, but if you can't afford to heat and eat...

Id say buying a home is a huge thing for younger people. Affordable housing is a massive issue and yes money could be spent elsewhere but I’d rather that money be raised from actually taxing business / wealthy people who can hide their money properly.

Not having to spend £15k on stamp duty will allow people to use that money to go towards mortgage payments/deposits/cost of running a home so is indirectly linked there.

In grand scheme of things it’s a tiny thing that benefits first time buyers. That’s only a good thing - I’m in no way saying that means we should all vote for them because it’s such a brilliant thing. It’s a nice one and benefits everyone buying a house which is a huge moment in people’s lives. I can make a statement that it’s a positive without it meaning I don’t agree with problems elsewhere though.

 

[Solid Air]

Because they won’t have to pay stamp duty

they don't now

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

they don't now

But if they scrapped the exceptions they would. That’s the point making. Everyone buying a house under 425k for first time woukdnt have to pay stamp duty - so they are all benefitting

 

[saintanton]

Id say buying a home is a huge thing for younger people. Affordable housing is a massive issue and yes money could be spent elsewhere but I’d rather that money be raised from actually taxing business / wealthy people who can hide their money properly.

Not having to spend £15k on stamp duty will allow people to use that money to go towards mortgage payments/deposits/cost of running a home so is indirectly linked there.

In grand scheme of things it’s a tiny thing that benefits first time buyers. That’s only a good thing - I’m in no way saying that means we should all vote for them because it’s such a brilliant thing. It’s a nice one and benefits everyone buying a house which is a huge moment in people’s lives. I can make a statement that it’s a positive without it meaning I don’t agree with problems elsewhere though.

Reasonable points, but I think society as a whole has rather more pressing concerns atm.
I want to see a government that has a plan to effectively improve the lot of all, not just a few niche areas.

 

[Zanjinho]

Id say buying a home is a huge thing for younger people. Affordable housing is a massive issue and yes money could be spent elsewhere but I’d rather that money be raised from actually taxing business / wealthy people who can hide their money properly.

Not having to spend £15k on stamp duty will allow people to use that money to go towards mortgage payments/deposits/cost of running a home so is indirectly linked there.

In grand scheme of things it’s a tiny thing that benefits first time buyers. That’s only a good thing - I’m in no way saying that means we should all vote for them because it’s such a brilliant thing. It’s a nice one and benefits everyone buying a house which is a huge moment in people’s lives. I can make a statement that it’s a positive without it meaning I don’t agree with problems elsewhere though.

True, but it only helps first time buyers that arguably don't need the help. They're buying a house that's worth OVER £425,000 (most people never reach that house value in their entire life time). They are either extremely well off already, have flush families members (so maybe occurring inheritance tax too tbf) or have an extremely high income. Ie, a typical Tory move to support they fellow wealthy compatriots but does nothing for the less wealthy (my original comment)

Now, if your argument had have been it only makes it fair because first time buyers of a lower value don't pay it, I'd have accepted it (and I accept what you've said too). But reality is, Tories are only making this move to get votes.

I don't side either way, I'm very much neutral. But removing stamp duty for first time when buying a house over £425,000 is as Tory as you can get; nobody forced them to buy a house in a high value area

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

True, but it only helps first time buyers that arguably don't need the help. They're buying a house that's worth OVER £425,000 (most people never reach that house value in their entire life time). They are either extremely well off already, have flush families members (so maybe occurring inheritance tax too tbf) or have an extremely high income. Ie, a typical Tory move to support they fellow wealthy compatriots but does nothing for the less wealthy (my original comment)

Now, if your argument had have been it only makes it fair because first time buyers of a lower value don't pay it, I'd have accepted it (and I accept what you've said too). But reality is, Tories are only making this move to get votes.

I don't side either way, I'm very much neutral. But removing stamp duty for first time when buying a house over £425,000 is as Tory as you can get; nobody forced them to buy a house in a high value area

But it’s location. £425k might seem a crazy amount to buy a house where you are, but where I am and I’m certainly not flushed for cash at all, but a 2 bed house is costing you £350k. Go to 3 bed and can easily get to 425k and I wouldn’t say a 3 bed house is extravagant for a first time buyer - yes you could do it cheaper but again if you go into London then that’s prob minimum looking at for a 2 bed flat somewhere.

Nobody is forcing to buy in that area true. But people are going to because that’s where they’ve grown up, where their job is, where their family/friends are etc. very easy to say move to a cheaper area but then you have to find a job in that area.. not as easy as just buy somewhere cheaper.

 

[Zanjinho]

But it’s location. £425k might seem a crazy amount to buy a house where you are, but where I am and I’m certainly not flushed for cash at all, but a 2 bed house is costing you £350k. Go to 3 bed and can easily get to 425k and I wouldn’t say a 3 bed house is extravagant for a first time buyer - yes you could do it cheaper but again if you go into London then that’s prob minimum looking at for a 2 bed flat somewhere.

Nobody is forcing to buy in that area true. But people are going to because that’s where they’ve grown up, where their job is, where their family/friends are etc. very easy to say move to a cheaper area but then you have to find a job in that area.. not as easy as just buy somewhere cheaper.

"nobody forced them to buy a house in a high value area"

Don't care what the reasoning is, they can obviously afford it

 

[saintanton]

True, but it only helps first time buyers that arguably don't need the help. They're buying a house that's worth OVER £425,000 (most people never reach that house value in their entire life time). They are either extremely well off already, have flush families members (so maybe occurring inheritance tax too tbf) or have an extremely high income. Ie, a typical Tory move to support they fellow wealthy compatriots but does nothing for the less wealthy (my original comment)

Now, if your argument had have been it only makes it fair because first time buyers of a lower value don't pay it, I'd have accepted it (and I accept what you've said too). But reality is, Tories are only making this move to get votes.

I don't side either way, I'm very much neutral. But removing stamp duty for first time when buying a house over £425,000 is as Tory as you can get; nobody forced them to buy a house in a high value area

It's up to £425,000.

 

[Zanjinho]

It's up to £425,000.

Yeah, not very well today so don't know why I was thinking above

 

[saintanton]

But it’s location. £425k might seem a crazy amount to buy a house where you are, but where I am and I’m certainly not flushed for cash at all, but a 2 bed house is costing you £350k. Go to 3 bed and can easily get to 425k and I wouldn’t say a 3 bed house is extravagant for a first time buyer - yes you could do it cheaper but again if you go into London then that’s prob minimum looking at for a 2 bed flat somewhere.

Nobody is forcing to buy in that area true. But people are going to because that’s where they’ve grown up, where their job is, where their family/friends are etc. very easy to say move to a cheaper area but then you have to find a job in that area.. not as easy as just buy somewhere cheaper.

I see your point, but I don't think you see mine. National policy should not be centred around the needs of Londoners, and there are more important things affecting the country that the money could be spent on.
It's a vote-grabbing attempt, like so many others in the run-up to an election.
On a side note, evidence shows that when this temporary measure was introduced, estate agents merely put up their prices to match, so all it benefitted was the property speculators, not the first-time buyers.
This is typical of ill considered Tory policy-making, even perhaps inadvertently they put money into the hands of the already wealthy.

 

[saintanton]

Yeah, not very well today so don't know why I was thinking above

Hope you're better soon.