Match Day Thread General matchday thread.

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FosseFilberto said:
Neither Citeh, Forest, Everton, Villa, Newcastle or Leicester City have spent beyond their actual 'means' ... measuring their 'means' by reference to some arbitrary financial parameters dreamt up by some random spreadsheet jockey at the football authority is not a real test or accurate measure of that - the asset value of the owners is ... however, it is a convenient means of constraining spend needed to mount a proper challenge to the Sky faves...

Give me one example of overspending massively backfiring on any Prem team being charged under the FFP rules? ... Everton my be in flux right now - but somebody very wealthy is going to buy Everton in due course ...
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Why? Theyre not a big club anymore despite what peeps born in the 40s might say.. theyre not even a midtable club ffs

Perpetual Relegation candidates is more apt these days imo
 
brb said:
Along with George Graham, the game has been blighted by cheating for decades, long before City were in the spotlight...



Exposed: the murky dealings of Manchester United

World's richest club in crisis over agent payments. Sir Alex Ferguson's son paid massive commission. Manager's future in doubt after damning report

Matthew Beard,Rachel Stevenson
Wednesday 26 May 2004 00:00 BST

Football's secret financial dealings were laid bare yesterday when Manchester United, the world's richest club, was forced to publish embarrassing details surrounding players' transfers and massive payments to agents.
Football's secret financial dealings were laid bare yesterday when Manchester United, the world's richest club, was forced to publish embarrassing details surrounding players' transfers and massive payments to agents.

United, admitting they have paid more than £13m to agents during the past three years, pledged to sever all ties with Elite Sports, an agency part-owned by Jason Ferguson, son of the club's manager, Sir Alex Ferguson. Its lucrative dealings with the club had been questioned, amid claims of nepotism.

The report, released to the Stock Exchange, details several other staggering payments involving the signing of 21 players. The total transfer fees involved were £158m.
The Irish tycoons John Magnier and J P McManus, who are major shareholders, forced the club, a listed company, to institute the inquiry during their acrimonious legal battle with Sir Alex over the stud rights of the racehorse Rock of Gibraltar. Although that dispute has now been settled, the outcome of the investigation will cast further doubt over Sir Alex's position, after a season in which the team won only the FA Cup seen as a failure by many.
A United source admitted last night: "This is not just about United. The whole business of appointing agents and the amount they get paid needs to be more transparent."

United acknowledged that it needed to introduce greater transparency to safeguard the club's reputation. It feared a backlash from shareholders.
The report reveals that, in 21 transfers during three years totalling £158m, the club paid 8.5 per cent to agents equal to £13.4m compared to a commission charged by the Professional Footballers' Association when it acts for players of 4 to 5 per cent. The report gives details of one deal involving Elite which saw Jason Ferguson's company pick up a surprising £300,000 for its role in the signing of Roy Carroll, a relative unknown, signed from Wigan Athletic as United's reserve goalkeeper.

It also outlines how Elite acts for 13 Manchester United players, and the Old Trafford club paid £237,000 in fees when Elite represented those players in negotiations with the club.
In response to allegations that Elite had pocketed £700,000 from the sale of the Dutch international Jaap Stam to Lazio after he fell out with Sir Alex, United said it had been assured that the agent Mike Morris whom it paid was not involved in "either the management or the ownership" of Jason Ferguson's agency. That is contrary to press speculation, and there are suggestions Elite was paid by Lazio in the deal.

The club admitted that a fee of £700,000 to the agent Gaetano Marotta to secure the purchase of the American goalkeeper Tim Howard was "large" but insisted that it was still good value for money. It represented almost one-third of the £2.3m transfer fee. The club said that its inquiries led it to believe that the agent's fee had been shared with others. But it had no proof.
It added: "The review has not identified the redistribution of any payment to anyone employed or connected with the club. However, in the future, to ensure we protect the club from such allegations, we will ask for a declaration from the agent that they have no direct or indirect relationship with anyone at the club.
"Based on this review, the board is satisfied there are no untoward issues between Elite and the club. Nevertheless, the board recognises the concerns over the connection between Elite and the club manager Sir Alex Ferguson. In future, Manchester United will not employ Elite Sports to act for the club and, to the extent Elite acts for a player or another club in negotiation with the club, will publish full details of its role in any such transaction."
The club also pledged to reveal to the City the amount paid in commission to agents, a practice it started with the purchase from Fulham of the striker Louis Saha. There would be new restrictions on unsolicited approaches from agents, improved record keeping and tighter rules on the appointment and remuneration of agents.
Sir Roy Gardner, the chairman of Manchester United plc, said: "This has been a far-reaching and thorough review of transfers over the past three years. I am satisfied we have complied with the relevant regulations but accept there are things we could do better. With that in mind, we have introduced improved internal controls and are confirming our commitment to greater transparency."
Controversy over the club's transfer dealings was fuelled by the purchase in August 2003 of the Brazilian player Kleberson. The club admitted the player was approached on its behalf by an agent, Ian Hetherington, despite the fact he was not registered by Fifa, the world's governing body.
Yesterday's report had been due for publication at the end of this week but it is believed to have released early because of an investigation to be broadcast on BBC3 tomorrow. The programme, Fergie and Son, is believed to look at at least one other controversial transfer.
Shareholders in Manchester United took heart from the club's assurances. One said: "It appears that due process has been carried out and they are taking the right steps to address the issues raised in the report."
But Sean Bones, of Shareholders United, an independent organisation representing supporters who are shareholders, said there was a wider problem. The UK had 234 registered football agents, compared to 111 in Germany and 46 in Italy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rky-dealings-of-manchester-united-564740.html

Football agent claimed he gave Alex Ferguson gold watch to fix match, court told


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rnsley-coach-allegedly-took-bribe-court-told#
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2004<laugh>

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luvgonzo said:
But if you continually spend more then you can afford at some point there will be consequences and a new rich guy has to turn up and if he doesn't you go bust and that doesn't help the PL brand so they put some rules in place. Seems fair enough to me. Break the rules you get fined and points deducted, suck it up up buttercup.
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It’s not like Leicester have a history of it, is it <whistle>
 
Libby said:
The problem is that when a team starts to do well they start to lose players to teams who can offer 4x times the amount. Yeah teams can have the odd good season like us/Leicester/Brighton but maintaining it is a whole new thing.

There's no realistic way a smaller club can bridge the gap and maintain it under FFP. Even if their owners have the money to burn.
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I disagree with the comment about bridging the gap, you just have to take a sustainable approach, improve infrastructure and increase revenue. All of this fits outside of the current FFP rules.
Unfortunately what clubs tend to do is go after the Carlos Kickabouts with a big fee and wages and then complain how unfair it is when they get into debt chasing the dream.
 
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FosseFilberto said:
Not disputing the numbers - but so what?

Our young owner's family fortune is currently estimated at USD 3.5 billion (and growing) ... he buys untried racehorses (foals and yearlings) at £3 million a pop and King Power currently have a string of 67 with UK based trainers ... our net spend is easily affordable for him ... so we are not spending beyond 'our means' ... which boils down to his means ... indeed, we have a 'sister club' in the Belgian top flight ...

The wage expenditure you mention will represent a trading expense to the club and any losses will actually be an asset (deferred tax asset) on the balance sheet ... they can be used to shelter future trading profits ... so are valuable - and a real financial measurement - not the artificial FFP bollocks ... <cheers>
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The thing is Fosse, you have no idea if and when he may get bored of a football club and want to focus on more horses. I also remember walking through Bangkok airport seeing all of the duty free shops closed, just as we were coming out of the pandemic.king Power took a massive hit and I genuinely believe Leicester stalling in the transfer market was a result of that. Hopefully it won’t happen but you can never tell. Surely the long term future sustainability has to be the way forward?
 
pieguts said:
The thing is Fosse, you have no idea if and when he may get bored of a football club and want to focus on more horses. I also remember walking through Bangkok airport seeing all of the duty free shops closed, just as we were coming out of the pandemic.king Power took a massive hit and I genuinely believe Leicester stalling in the transfer market was a result of that. Hopefully it won’t happen but you can never tell. Surely the long term future sustainability has to be the way forward?
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No more or less than any other football fan mate ... but I'll enjoy it while it lasts - as I said earlier, King Power also own OH Leuven in the Belgium top flight, so obviously enjoy footie ...
 
brb said:
It's very relevant even if you don't think so. It was only lucrative to those at the top, which is why Manchester United benefited and went on to benefit for years. As for City, no they don't care about those at the bottom either, but that's why it's funny, because they shafted you lot at the top, taste of your own medicine is how I see it, at least Pep let you win the FA Cup this year, I thought that was very generous and noble of him. As for the crying, none at all here, I hope Pep stays and denys the rest a few more trophies, just so I can see this place flooded by more tears. Once City get done, IF they get done, it will just return to the boring status quo of the usual top six, and their fans will be happy again, until the next game fixer comes along.
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<laugh>

Yeah, ok.
 
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Captain Chaos said:
The big 6 fans tears are polluting every football platform Today it's highly satisfying. The fear of competition courses through their veins.
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Nobody is stopping any club from competing, but you can’t continually spend what you haven’t got without it biting you on the arse. It really is that simple. As I keep saying, focus on increasing revenue and then reap the rewards.
 
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