Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Fulham

[PowerSpurs]

More money helps but it’s no guarantee to success and not the reason why Spurs were dire today.

Look at Man Utd and the money they’ve spent on expensive flops.

Money and success are very highly correlated although it seems easier to mess up with money than to win things without it.
And today's performance flows directly from lack of money. That's why we are relying on below par players like Bissouma and a whole group of young players who may or may not make it.
I don't think there is a single example in any major league of a club outside the top 4 richest having anything other than fleeting success.

 

[KingHotspur]

Money and success are very highly correlated although it seems easier to mess up with money than to win things without it.
And today's performance flows directly from lack of money. That's why we are relying on below par players like Bissouma and a whole group of young players who may or may not make it.
I don't think there is a single example in any major league of a club outside the top 4 richest having anything other than fleeting success.

Right now I’d take fleeting success

 

[remembercolinlee]

Would be boring if we all thought the same.

I’m only critical when there’s something to be critical of. Losing 3-0 to Fulham is never acceptable yet some here just seem happy to shrug it off.

Guilty as charged

 

[PowerSpurs]

Right now I’d take fleeting success

It would be nice yes, but the reason it is fleeting is because it is down to luck and there is nothing we can do to arrange it.

 

[Tilly'sowner]

I was watching Ireland’s game in the 6N (yay!) so only saw a little of the second half.

Spurs were ****e and I’m getting a little fed up with them yet again. There was simply no excuse for such an abject performance. Getting sick of hearing we are rebuilding and it takes a few years to build a good squad. Those starting today were prettty much our star players and not one of them did themselves any credit.

Still, at least I’m happy Ireland won! And it’s St Paddy’s Day tomorrow!

 

[KingHotspur]

It would be nice yes, but the reason it is fleeting is because it is down to luck and there is nothing we can do to arrange it.

Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good

I agree the best way to success is to increase revenue and income but it’s not a guarantee

 

[KingHotspur]

Spurs were ****e and I’m getting a little fed up with them yet again. There was simply no excuse for such an abject performance. Getting sick of hearing we are rebuilding and it takes a few years to build a good squad. Those starting today were prettty much our star players and not one of them did themselves any credit.

Strong words but I don’t disagree

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

I was watching Ireland’s game in the 6N (yay!) so only saw a little of the second half.

Spurs were ****e and I’m getting a little fed up with them yet again. There was simply no excuse for such an abject performance. Getting sick of hearing we are rebuilding and it takes a few years to build a good squad. Those starting today were prettty much our star players and not one of them did themselves any credit.

Still, at least I’m happy Ireland won! And it’s St Paddy’s Day tomorrow!

<black stuff> <shamrock> <leprechaun> emojis
I’m one generation away from being able to play for Ireland. I have relatives who came from a village of 100 in County Mayo - which had 3 pubs
But I draw the line at watching RU as it’s so f***ing boring so much of the time - although probably preferable to watching Spurs today

 

[PowerSpurs]

Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good

I agree the best way to success is to increase revenue and income but it’s not a guarantee

I've never said it was. Not doing it is more or less a guarantee of failure though unless we get really lucky.
Given that we are sending our players out to compete in a league where 3 clubs have substantially more expensive squads and two more have slightly more expensive squads it is not very surprising that they don't always perform at the standards we want. If we have an offday against one of the mid table sides playing their best then we will lose and if they get two lucky goals and we miss several easy chances then 3-0 is going to be the score. There is nothing anyone can do about it. The only measure of progress is points over a season or longer. Worrying about single results doesn't help at all.

 

[Dier Hard]

Didn’t see the game but this is unintentionally hilarious from Ally Gold, it’s Werner summed up to a tee

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I saw a GIF on Twitter of Werner’s open goal miss from Johnson’s cross too. His miss compilation on YouTube is about to get even more legendary.

 

[Tilly'sowner]

<black stuff> <shamrock> <leprechaun> emojis
I’m one generation away from being able to play for Ireland. I have relatives who came from a village of 100 in County Mayo - which had 3 pubs
But I draw the line at watching RU as it’s so f***ing boring so much of the time - although probably preferable to watching Spurs today

It was a far better craic watching Ireland today than Spurs! I had two screens up intending to watch both but I simply gave up on Spurs.

Not sure 3 pubs is enough to cater for a village of 100.

 

[Dier Hard]

Robinson has been immense for Fulham. Everything that none of our lot have been.

Reckon there’s a chance we can take him and give them their old LB back in return?

Seems fair to me…

 

[Tilly'sowner]

Strong words but I don’t disagree

Thought I would jump off the Ange bandwagon for just one day

 

[KingHotspur]

Thought I would jump off the Ange bandwagon for just one day

Ange had a great start but for me he needs to be a lot smarter defensively. The high line will never work at Spurs and they look far too open regardless of opponent. He’s just playing the same way he did at Celtic. He could play that way if he was Man City manager but not at Spurs.

 

[Dier Hard]

Better players are more consistent. Better players cost more money though. So the only way to get more consistent players is to have more money to spend. It will be a few seasons more until our squad is in the top three. There are no palatable shortcuts

Not necessarily. A number of our better players cost less than a bunch of others who are mostly out of the XI.

Sarr is already thrice the player Ndombele and Lo Celso are and cost about a 5th of what they did. Likewise Udogie at £15m and Sessegnon who cost double the Italian. For me, possibly being biased but I think Vicario has been keeper of the season and he’s cost considerably less than a lot of other keepers in the league.

I’m not advocating we should spend small but highlighting with our own players that more expensive doesn’t equate to better, a lot comes down to having a cohesive plan which largely we do now. When we do spend big going forward we need to get it right and not leave ourselves with the Richarlison’s, Ndombele’s and Lo Celso’s of the world, all of whom will be sold for losses having made little to no contribution to this football club.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

Not sure 3 pubs is enough to cater for a village of 100.

Not if they all go to the bar at once

 

[PowerSpurs]

Not necessarily. A number of our better players cost less than a bunch of others who are mostly out of the XI.

Sarr is already thrice the player Ndombele and Lo Celso are and cost about a 5th of what they did. Likewise Udogie at £15m and Sessegnon who cost double the Italian. For me, possibly being biased but I think Vicario has been keeper of the season and he’s cost considerably less than a lot of other keepers in the league.

I’m not advocating we should spend small but highlighting with our own players that more expensive doesn’t equate to better, a lot comes down to having a cohesive plan which largely we do now. When we do spend big going forward we need to get it right and not leave ourselves with the Richarlison’s, Ndombele’s and Lo Celso’s of the world, all of whom will be sold for losses having made little to no contribution to this football club.

More than half of everyone's signings will be duds but on average the more you spend the better players you will buy.
It's very hard to identify who is going to develop into a top player. The key is to be able to outbid other clubs for the absolute cream. Sarr, Udogie and Vicario look like very good buys but we've no idea if they will actually turn into Harry Kane, Gareth Bale and Luca Modric standard or whether they will be the next level down or worse.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good

I agree the best way to success is to increase revenue and income but it’s not a guarantee

Luck works both ways though. Without feathering your nest with increased income and revenue, there is no way a spell of bad luck will be anything other than devastating.

We had a plan under Poch but from 2017 onwards, we lacked the revenue and focus to deliver it. So we were hugely reliant on things out of our control going our way. We needed luck.

We didn't get it.

Within 12 months of eachother, all of Wanyama, Dembele and Rose had suffered injuries that would effectively end their time as elite players. We lacked the income to properly compensate for that big slice of bad luck, and so began the decline that saw us limp to a top 4 finish in 2018 before the decay really set in the next season.

Under Ange, we seem to have a plan and we also have the income and focus to deliver it. I'll hold off on a conclusion until the season has ended, but as far as luck goes this has been one of the worst seasons I can remember. The number and lengths of injuries has been ridiculous. And yet, as things stand, we are still on course for one of our strongest seasons in PL history.

Why? Because we have a plan and our increased revenue has given us a better wider squad than we had under Poch, so we were able to weather the injury storm better.

Looking at that decaying 2018 squad, Porro is better than Trippier, Udogie is better than broken Rose, Sarr is better than Sissoko, Bentancur is better than Winks, Hojbjerg is better than broken Wanyama.

What gave us an edge that season was the fact that we were 5 years into a plan and had a much stronger group of players in attack.

So for now, we need to stick to the plan and look to grow our revenue so that we can improve areas that clearly need improving. And I would say that attack is one of those areas as we have 6 attacking players and none of them knows the meaning of the word "consistent".

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Not necessarily. A number of our better players cost less than a bunch of others who are mostly out of the XI.

Sarr is already thrice the player Ndombele and Lo Celso are and cost about a 5th of what they did. Likewise Udogie at £15m and Sessegnon who cost double the Italian. For me, possibly being biased but I think Vicario has been keeper of the season and he’s cost considerably less than a lot of other keepers in the league.

I’m not advocating we should spend small but highlighting with our own players that more expensive doesn’t equate to better, a lot comes down to having a cohesive plan which largely we do now. When we do spend big going forward we need to get it right and not leave ourselves with the Richarlison’s, Ndombele’s and Lo Celso’s of the world, all of whom will be sold for losses having made little to no contribution to this football club.

Spending does tend to become more efficient the more clarity there is over a plan and style of play. At that point instead of blindly throwing loads of darts hoping you hit something, you can carefully pick out the players who will fit the bigger picture.

But it's the next step that's horribly difficult. I don't often agree with PS but I will here.

The challenge is what do you do if/when it becomes clear that the 'bargain' players are good but not quite good enough?

There is a risk this could happen to any if not all of our youngsters. Sarr, Udogie, Micky etc. and because all are already clearly very good players, to improve on them will cost an absolute fortune.

It pains me to say it, but we might already be watching this play out with Kulusevski. He's indisputably a very good player, but is equally indisputably nowhere near good enough to play for.the teams we're trying to overtake. So what do we do? Gamble another £35m on a young out of favour player, or stump up upwards of £80m for a big name in the same position?

It isn't at all clear which is wiser.

 

[KingHotspur]

Luck works both ways though. Without feathering your nest with increased income and revenue, there is no way a spell of bad luck will be anything other than devastating.

We had a plan under Poch but from 2017 onwards, we lacked the revenue and focus to deliver it. So we were hugely reliant on things out of our control going our way. We needed luck.

We didn't get it.

Within 12 months of eachother, all of Wanyama, Dembele and Rose had suffered injuries that would effectively end their time as elite players. We lacked the income to properly compensate for that big slice of bad luck, and so began the decline that saw us limp to a top 4 finish in 2018 before the decay really set in the next season.

Under Ange, we seem to have a plan and we also have the income and focus to deliver it. I'll hold off on a conclusion until the season has ended, but as far as luck goes this has been one of the worst seasons I can remember. The number and lengths of injuries has been ridiculous. And yet, as things stand, we are still on course for one of our strongest seasons in PL history.

Why? Because we have a plan and our increased revenue has given us a better wider squad than we had under Poch, so we were able to weather the injury storm better.

Looking at that decaying 2018 squad, Porro is better than Trippier, Udogie is better than broken Rose, Sarr is better than Sissoko, Bentancur is better than Winks, Hojbjerg is better than broken Wanyama.

What gave us an edge that season was the fact that we were 5 years into a plan and had a much stronger group of players in attack.

So for now, we need to stick to the plan and look to grow our revenue so that we can improve areas that clearly need improving. And I would say that attack is one of those areas as we have 6 attacking players and none of them knows the meaning of the word "consistent".

Don’t get me wrong, increasing income is obviously important but I’ve seen Spurs lose and outplayed by teams who operate on a much smaller budget more than once this season.

Yesterday was awful, the stats show the team didn’t even try or work hard as usual. There’s no reason to be outsprinted and outworked. There was an arrogance yesterday that I didn’t like, the Villa game was good but the players acted like like they had made it and didn’t do the minimum yesterday.

I don’t see this season as one of the strongest in PL history. I think the club are only 4 points better off at this stage than last season.