Stallions on a Budget

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Ron

Ron

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Jan 25, 2011
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Nathaniel - Top end of low budget - £17,500

There are only four living stallions who have sired a Derby and an Oaks winner. New Approach returned from Darley to Jim Bolger last year as the horse's fertility waned and covered one mare, according to Weatherbys

Of the others, Frankel stands at £350,000 and Sea The Stars commands a fee of €200,000, so both are very much out of reach to most, but the remaining stallion is not. Nathaniel, who stands for £17,500 at Newsells Park Stud, is an underappreciated and value sire

Nathaniel has sired Enable and Desert Crown, as well as Prix de Diane winner Channel and Deutsches Derby runner-up Enjoy Vijay

Like Nathaniel, his progeny come into their own at three and older. Nathaniel was a top-class performer at ten and 12 furlongs but ran twice at two, finishing second on both occasions (one of those was a hard fought battle with Frankel), won the King George and the King Edward VII Stakes at three, and the Eclipse at four. That year he was second in the Irish Champion Stakes and King George, and third in the Champion Stakes

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Nathaniel sires tough, sound and durable racehorses. Nathaniel has covered a significant number of National Hunt mares, or ones that could be considered dual purpose; that is an enormous positive

As he's free of Danehill and Danzig blood, Nathaniel has sired Group 1 winners out of mares by Danehill, Dansili, Green Desert and Oasis Dream
 
Interesting Article on budget stallions.

I see Frankel's sons, Logician stands at £4,000, Without Parole £8,000, Triple Time £10,000, Hurricane Lane €6,000, Foment 1,000

There are some incredibly cheap stallions at present

Foment is a full brother to Logician. Unproven but with that pedigree looks worth a risk at £1,000
 
Ron said:
Interesting Article on budget stallions.

I see Frankel's sons, Logician stands at £4,000, Without Parole £8,000, Triple Time £10,000, Hurricane Lane €6,000, Foment 1,000

There are some incredibly cheap stallions at present

Foment is a full brother to Logician. Unproven but with that pedigree looks worth a risk at £1,000
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Dr Newland part owns Logician, so expect plenty to turn up in his yard in the future.
 
I don't understand why Nathaniel seems to be so far behind other stallions. The 3yo career of Enable ensured that Nathaniel was the leading 2nd crop sire of 2017 in terms of prizemoney won. Of the peers he beat the most notable name was Frankel and their 3yos that year were from their first crop.
He couldn't have got off to a better start could he?
In reality, by the time his first 3yos ran his star was already on the wane. Nathaniel didn't feature in the minds of top breeders as a likely champion sire, so his services were not as sought out as were those of his illustrious peer. It's a common feature that once the racecourse efforts are 2-3 years in the past that the excellence of racehorses begins to dim. His book size reduced as the early years went by as it does for many stallions (though not Frankel).Yes he got a bit of a boost in 2018 after Enable's 2017 wins but that was shortlived. If you look at the number of mares Frankel and Nathaniel covered in their first season then Nathaniel covered about 4 more than Frankel: perhaps a surprise. What will be considerably different is the type of mares being sent to the two stallions. Frankel's would be the creme de la creme as he was such a great racehorse. Nathaniel would also be at a disadvantage because Frankel and he are both by Galileo so they are competing for the same non-Galileo mares. In 2022 Frankel covered 197 mares while Nathaniel had slipped to 120.

I'm afraid breeding is at the same time a fashion and a numbers game. The latter, more so, since stallions covered larger books of mares. In the '60s and '70s (*) it wasn't unusual for most stallions to be limited to something like 40 mares. In that kind of environment Nathaniel might have done better.

*I looked up my earliest copy of Return of Mares, which was 1974, and that statement about books of 40 mares was broadly true. There was a horse called Prince Hansel who covered 90 odd mares in 1973, but most were much lower. The most used Flat sire was Green God who covered about 60. Great Nephew stood out. He covered 42 mares and got them all in foal: not bad going.
 
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Ron said:
Interesting Article on budget stallions.

I see Frankel's sons, Logician stands at £4,000, Without Parole £8,000, Triple Time £10,000, Hurricane Lane €6,000, Foment 1,000

There are some incredibly cheap stallions at present

Foment is a full brother to Logician. Unproven but with that pedigree looks worth a risk at £1,000
Click to expand...

Without Parole seems to get some good mentions for his yearlings and foals.
 
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There was an unraced 5yo full brother to ************ recently went to a stud in Normandy for €3,000. Annoyingly, I can't remember the ***********. Was mentioned on this forum somewhere but can't find it
 
Ron said:
There was an unraced 5yo full brother to ************ recently went to a stud in Normandy for €3,000. Annoyingly, I can't remember the ***********. Was mentioned on this forum somewhere but can't find it
Click to expand...

Wasn't it Sir Barney talking about ***************
 
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Herostar €3,000

This beautifully bred unraced 1.65m dark bay horse, with a great mind and no transmissible physical problems is standing at the Haras de la Verte Vallée, in Normandy. He has a wonderful jumping pedigree, being a son of Walk in the Park (Montjeu) out of a mare by Saint des Saints (Cadoudal), making him a full brother to champion Douvan, winner of eight Grs1 over jumps, and Jonbon, winner of the Top Novices' Hurdle and Henry VIII Novices' Chase (Grs1)

I guess that, as an unproven stallion who never raced, ensures that he starts his stud career at such a low fee. But that should not be a deterrent and looks very good value

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Herostar, full brother to Douvan and Jonbon
 
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Bustino74 said:
But why didn't he race?
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I've looked into it but can't find anything. Apparently, bloodstock agents and friends Jerry McGrath and Toby Jones were purchasing form horses for clients and spotted Herostar as a late wild card addition at the Arcan Sales and fancied the idea of a full brother to Douvan. The original intention was to race him and gelding was an option. But luckily for Herostar, they decided against it with the entire's kind temperament and easy-going nature a critical factor in that decision, which has led to a new departure for them

Personally, although he looks a nice horse, looking at his neck, you wouldn't think he is a stallion. Obviously hadn't been worked much, which might explain why he never reached the racecourse
 
Ron said:
I've looked into it but can't find anything. Apparently, bloodstock agents and friends Jerry McGrath and Toby Jones were purchasing form horses for clients and spotted Herostar as a late wild card addition at the Arcan Sales and fancied the idea of a full brother to Douvan. The original intention was to race him and gelding was an option. But luckily for Herostar, they decided against it with the entire's kind temperament and easy-going nature a critical factor in that decision, which has led to a new departure for them

Personally, although he looks a nice horse, looking at his neck, you wouldn't think he is a stallion. Obviously hadn't been worked much, which might explain why he never reached the racecourse
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...... the back end looks a bit weak too
 
Yes, am really looking forward to seeing how the progeny of Herostar get on. Although I suppose it will take a good half dozen years for us to get any definite proof about how good a sire Herostar might be in the old NH sphere.

Interestingly, I see that El Fabiolo's half-brother, Semper Fortis, may end up along similar lines to Herostar. This one is, and I quote, 'in training with Willie Mullins' and when / if (delete as appropriate) he does make it to the track will do so in the colours of form faves, Munir and Suede. However, and this is the key element, Semper Fortis has only been leased to the Munir / Suede axis (I don't know the duration) with his breeders still retaining outright ownership. Still an entire they hold the ambition of embarking on a stallion career after Semper Fortis has finished racing (although with these ambitions in mind will Semper Fortis only ever run if he is deemed to be rather good???).
 
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