Grant Holt! Saint or sinner?

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Personally I agree with the sentiments of the article. Too much is made is diving in general. Its part and parcel of the game now whether we like it or not. Yes it sucks when it happens against you but when it goes for you I really couldn't give a flying f***.

The funny thing is people thinks it permeates through to all levels of football but I have yet to see a school team having any player going down softly in all the games that i ref or take the kids to. It seems to happen more often as the stakes increase.

It would also stand out a mile if they attempted it because it is usually the sheer pace of the game when a dive is attempted that causes uncertainty in the refs mind so unless you are playing at a professional standard it will look blatant an usually a very crap attempt to con the ref!
 
Morning Dave, love the bit about Norwich players being to honest.(?). Regards players diving, it happens all the time and is never going to stop,but Holt seems to a habit of it. At our game on Sunday i sat next to a couple of City supporters and we were talking about the Arsenal game and to be honest they were embarressed about Holts dive.
Personally i dont think he's doing you any favours other Refs would have watched his pathetic dive and be watching him carefully,so it could work against you.

Good luck for the rest of the season, think you are good enough to stay up and should finish just below halfway.
 
There isn't one club in the land with players that haven't done it, and I'd be quite surprised if there are any left that haven't already done it this season. It is part of the game, but I hate it.
I take issue with a couple of things in the article though. He seems to suggest that any contact is a foul, and therefore if a player goes down they're just exagerating a foul. That's nonsense though, isn't it? You can't play the game without some physical contact, but it doesn't mean it's a foul. Of course if they feel a shirt tug, ankles being clipped, little push in the back etc they've every right to go down, but not just for any physical contact. For me, there's a difference between something being soft, and a dive.
The other is the often trotted out cliche of 'a player would rather stay on their feet...'. Well, unless they're clean through and one on one, I reckon most players would fancy their chances of slotting a pen as higher than scoring from open play.
 
On that basis, Mertasacker could have gone down under the challenge from Morison,
and our first goal would not have stood.

I know the "bigger they come, the harder they fall" but Holt on occasions does take this to extremes. Plus, if you're going to cheat/dive/simulate a foul, you need to bit a little canny about it, as three officials are (supposedly) on the lookout for such antics.
 
sorry dave, don't agree with the article at all. holt has gained a reputation and it won't be helped by his antics on saturday. he has been accused of diving before and i have always backed him up because in my opinion he was fouled on each and every single one of those occasions and had every right to go down. on saturday there was nothing in it. being truly honest, there is only one other occasion since holt has been here where i feel he definitely dived and it was in a match against sheffield united last season (not for the penalty which everybody remembers - he was clipped for that travelling at speed - that was a penalty) but he tumbled under no contact in front of the barclay. nothing was given but thats not really the point. if we are all happy to accept opposition players doing it to us, as they were earlier in the season then fine, but i'm not sure i can <ok>
 
I´m afraid I don´t agree with Premier League survival, at ANY cost, as the article is suggesting, and would prefer to hang on to our place by honest means rather than blatant cheating. What Holt tried to get away with on Saturday was blatant cheating, as, on looking at it again, I don´t think he was even touched, and I can´t condone that in any way, either from our opponents or ourselves. That said, with all the amount of contact there is these days in the penalty areas, it´s understandable that players feel the urge to try it on time and time again, especially when the referees seem to fall for it, time and time again, but Holty does, and has always, gone looking for a foul whenever possible, I think it´s just beginning to come back and bite him now, he´s a better player than that, and he should try and cut it out.

Hopefully, in the long run, honesty is still the best policy.
 
I don´t think he was even touched

exactly. if he was clipped and went down easily, then thats different. but he tried to fabricate something from nothing. i'm not going to defend out and out cheating... its exactly the same as what steven reid did for west brom against us, except rather ridiculously, he got awarded a penalty for it!
 
Cromercanary said:
On that basis, Mertasacker could have gone down under the challenge from Morison,
and our first goal would not have stood.

I know the "bigger they come, the harder they fall" but Holt on occasions does take this to extremes. Plus, if you're going to cheat/dive/simulate a foul, you need to bit a little canny about it, as three officials are (supposedly) on the lookout for such antics.
Click to expand...

Cromer, I don't know if that was in reply to me or not, so thought I'd better answer any way. I totally agree with you. The point I was trying to make was that just because there's contact, it doesn't mean it's a foul. If someone feels they've been fouled, they have the right to go down and let the ref decide. But simply having contact doesn't mean it's a foul.
 
If we continue to accept this type of behaviour on the pitch as "part and parcel of the game" then we might as well sign on Tom Daley now! Has it come to trying to win games by penalties? Lets go straight to 11 penalties each and be done with it. Teams wouldn't even have to travel, they could stay home and the penalties beamed to the oppostion ground. Nobody would have to take their seats. They could stay in the bar (Steady Dave!) and watch it. Or failing that, get some Pakistani cricketers to tell us the result.
George Best wouldn't have scored half his goals if he'd have gone down with the slightest contact, sorry, touch.
I watched the ManC game last night and the Napoli keeper came out for a ball, fell into his own player, screamed in agony but stopped when he realised it was his own player. I expect he would have been carried off by three doctors if it had been a City player. The world is barmy!
 
redruthyella said:
If we continue to accept this type of behaviour on the pitch as "part and parcel of the game" then we might as well sign on Tom Daley now! Has it come to trying to win games by penalties? Lets go straight to 11 penalties each and be done with it. Teams wouldn't even have to travel, they could stay home and the penalties beamed to the oppostion ground. Nobody would have to take their seats. They could stay in the bar (Steady Dave!) and watch it. Or failing that, get some Pakistani cricketers to tell us the result.
George Best wouldn't have scored half his goals if he'd have gone down with the slightest contact, sorry, touch.
I watched the ManC game last night and the Napoli keeper came out for a ball, fell into his own player, screamed in agony but stopped when he realised it was his own player. I expect he would have been carried off by three doctors if it had been a City player. The world is barmy!
Click to expand...

Most of us oldies would agree
With you redruth, good old honesty,
Isn´t always on view
These days, and most do
Want to try and get something for free. :(
 
Exile said:
Cromer, I don't know if that was in reply to me or not, so thought I'd better answer any way. I totally agree with you. The point I was trying to make was that just because there's contact, it doesn't mean it's a foul. If someone feels they've been fouled, they have the right to go down and let the ref decide. But simply having contact doesn't mean it's a foul.
Click to expand...

No Exile, it was aimed at the world in general - but more specifically at James Kent who wrote the original article. Morison had at least two good 'nibbles' at Mertsacker's legs before eventually emerging with the ball. Enough for a dishonest player to go over and win the free kick.

As I said on Saturday night, Wes Hoolers is half the size of Holt but manages to stay on his feet under the slightest hint of a challenge - something Holt would be advised to take on board as he (and we) could get found out otherwise.

Redruth <ok> <rofl>
 
"Lets go straight to 11 penalties each and be done with it. Teams wouldn't even have to travel, they could stay home and the penalties beamed to the oppostion ground. Nobody would have to take their seats."

This is a good idea apart from 1 thing? We would still need a goalkeeper to travel surely?
 
It was with some trepidation that I started a thread on Saturday ("Probably in the minority here, but...") about this self same issue assuming I'd get burned at the stake for having the audacity to suggest such a thing.

I know it's a multi million pound business and that points win prizes but I'd prefer to see it done fairly. Good to know I'm not the only one <ok>
 
Let me get back in here!

I'm very happy to see so many of you saying it is wrong! Of course it is wrong, but look at the figures from last night's AGM! This year we get £38 Million from TV, compared to £5 - £5.5 Million last year in the Championship! That is why so many clubs turn a blind eye to 'cheating' by their players!

I don't like it! It's not football, but it's what money has turned the game into!

<steam>
 
canary-dave said:
Let me get back in here!

I'm very happy to see so many of you saying it is wrong! Of course it is wrong, but look at the figures from last night's AGM! This year we get £38 Million from TV, compared to £5 - £5.5 Million last year in the Championship! That is why so many clubs turn a blind eye to 'cheating' by their players!

I don't like it! It's not football, but it's what money has turned the game into!

<steam>
Click to expand...

And double<steam><steam> From me
 
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