Match Day Thread Plymouth Argyle FC v Sunderland AFC – Saturday 25th November 2023 - KO 15:00

[smithy in nl]

Not saying that mate,but you're clearly convinced Mowbray is wrong and equally convinced that he could do things better.

In my view this 'freshening up' idea or resting players, after half a dozen games, would be demoralising for players.

They'll see it as being dropped imo.

I kinda do think he’s wrong to not change things tbh so you’re right.
But he’s already done confidence draining things like hook a striker after half a game at the wknd stick hemir in first game and he’s barely been seen since.
Continuing to play players who are out of form must be a kick in the balls for a player wanting to show what he can do too.
For example he said himself that jobes tired and needs a break so sweet put one of the 3 other 10’s you have in problem solved yet he’s not done that.

It’s not just us who moan about tactics and players mate that’s football I bet city fans want to see different players in different positions at times doesn’t make us bad people or bad fans.

 

[Sour Patch]

Thought I would go and look at the amount of shots our players are having individually and it made for some pretty interesting and grim reading. We simply are not creating good quality chances for the players we pay to score goals, instead our chances are falling to players we don't particularly want in them positions.

This is the amount of shots our strikers have had this season;
Rusyn- 9
Burstow- 8
Hemir- 7
Mayenda- 2

Jack Clarke leads the team with 46 and the next highest is Dan Neil with 28 which proves the point that if Clarke doesn't do something, we as a team don't do much.

Neil having more shots than the whole of our strike force combined is a worry considering shooting is probably the weakest part of his game.

Aouchiche already has 11 shots in the minimal amount of minutes he has played which again ranks above all the forwards.

Hemir is the most interesting one as he seems to be the one forward we create decent chances for. He has generated 1.2 xG from just 7 shots which is 0.17 xG per shot which is the second highest in our squad behind Dack at 0.21.

Now looking at the creation side of things, it is clear that Jobe should not be playing in the role that is meant to be the player creating the chances and that Pritchard or Aouchiche should have that role. This is based on each players xA per 90 (expected assists generated per 90 minutes) where Jobe has 0.09 whereas Aouchiche produces 0.20 and Pritchard tops the squad with 0.36, apart from Bennette who has produced 1.0 xA but has only played a handful of minutes and got the assist for Riggs goal.

Overall I think we need to play Pritchard or Aouchiche and allow them to develop a partnership with whichever forward is playing as they all look like they have some quality but they just aren't getting the service.

 

[samwise_new]

Thought I would go and look at the amount of shots our players are having individually and it made for some pretty interesting and grim. We simply are not creating good quality chances for the players we pay to score goals, instead our chances are falling to players we don't particularly want in them positions.

This is the amount of shots our strikers have had this season;
Rusyn- 9
Burstow- 8
Hemir- 7
Mayenda- 2

Jack Clarke leads the team with 46 and the next highest is Dan Neil with 28 which proves the point that if Clarke doesn't do something, we as a team don't do much.

Neil having more shots than the whole of our strike force combined is a worry considering shooting is probably the weakest part of his game.

Aouchiche already has 11 shots in the minimal amount of minutes he has played which again ranks above all the forwards.

Hemir is the most interesting one as he seems to be the one forward we create decent chances for. He has generated 1.2 xG from just 7 shots which is 0.17 xG per shot which is the second highest in our squad behind Dack at 0.21.

Now looking at the creation side of things, it is clear that Jobe should not be playing in the role that is meant to be the player creating the chances and that Pritchard or Aouchiche should have that role. This is based on each players xA per 90 (expected assists generated per 90 minutes) where Jobe has 0.09 whereas Aouchiche produces 0.20 and Pritchard tops the squad with 0.36, apart from Bennette who has produced 1.0 xA but has only played a handful of minutes and got the assist for Riggs goal.

Overall I think we need to play Pritchard or Aouchiche and allow them to develop a partnership with whichever forward is playing as they all look like they have some quality but they just aren't getting the service.

don't know what i am missing when looking at the eleven chosen ones but for me, pritchard has to be in there even if we just get 60 minutes out of him, he closes down, tackles, forces players to go backwards, is an excellent passer...he just creates stuff, unless injured he should be in there showing the young lads the way.

 

[clockstander]

Not saying that mate,but you're clearly convinced Mowbray is wrong and equally convinced that he could do things better.

In my view this 'freshening up' idea or resting players, after half a dozen games, would be demoralising for players.

They'll see it as being dropped imo.

Just as likely to see picking the same team automatically every game as being favouritism, its a fine line.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

I kinda do think he’s wrong to not change things tbh so you’re right.
But he’s already done confidence draining things like hook a striker after half a game at the wknd stick hemir in first game and he’s barely been seen since.
Continuing to play players who are out of form must be a kick in the balls for a player wanting to show what he can do too.
For example he said himself that jobes tired and needs a break so sweet put one of the 3 other 10’s you have in problem solved yet he’s not done that.

It’s not just us who moan about tactics and players mate that’s football I bet city fans want to see different players in different positions at times doesn’t make us bad people or bad fans.

His man management of the striker situation has been absolutely appalling mind. You’d think every other team in the division had a £20m experienced striker leading the line. How many of our Xl were seen as hopeless before being given a chance here? They need time to play.

Heading into December and how many starts do they have between them? Burstow was coming off the bench in the PL for Chelsea and was apparently taking the net off in training he’s obviously got a bit about him to be training with their first team at the age he’s at, Rusyn was scoring for fun for a team playing European football with dominant 98th+ percentile stats for a striker in the league and Hemir came from arguably the best academy in world football…. Yet he doesn’t trust any of them or refuses to give them a proper chance.

Just from who we’ve played off the top of my head;

Plymouth started Luke Cundle against us, managed 3 goals all of last season at this level.

Boro - Josh Coburn, one average season in L1 last year under his belt.

Birmingham - Stansfield, similar to Coburn one season in L1.

Blackburn - Harry Leonard, never played any blokes football before this season.

 

[FellTop]

His man management of the striker situation has been absolutely appalling mind. You’d think every other team in the division had a £20m experienced striker leading the line. How many of our Xl were seen as hopeless before being given a chance here? They need time to play.

Heading into December and how many starts do they have between them? Burstow was coming off the bench in the PL for Chelsea and was apparently taking the net off in training he’s obviously got a bit about him to be training with their first team at the age he’s at, Rusyn was scoring for fun for a team playing European football with dominant 98th+ percentile stats for a striker in the league and Hemir came from arguably the best academy in world football…. Yet he doesn’t trust any of them or refuses to give them a proper chance.

Just from who we’ve played off the top of my head;

Plymouth started Luke Cundle against us, managed 3 goals all of last season at this level.

Boro - Josh Coburn, one average season in L1 last year under his belt.

Birmingham - Stansfield, similar to Coburn one season in L1.

Blackburn - Harry Leonard, never played any blokes football before this season.

Not sure how you can say his man management has been appalling. I dont see any of our 4 new strikers sulking because they have been treated badly by Mowbray.

My bet would be Hemir was brought in with expectations he wouldnt be first team ready. He hasnt looked it either in my opinion. I would suggest the same with Mayenda. Burstow is probably the only one who had any expectation of starting games, and Rusyn would have expected to prove himself the main striker.

The problem as I see it with our strikers, is that our wide men and attacking midfielders dony yet play to their strengths. I have no doubt Mowbray is working on that every day in training. I also have no doubt he is talking to all four of them about expectations, performance and how to play in our side.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Not sure how you can say his man management has been appalling. I dont see any of our 4 new strikers sulking because they have been treated badly by Mowbray.

My bet would be Hemir was brought in with expectations he wouldnt be first team ready. He hasnt looked it either in my opinion. I would suggest the same with Mayenda. Burstow is probably the only one who had any expectation of starting games, and Rusyn would have expected to prove himself the main striker.

The problem as I see it with our strikers, is that our wide men and attacking midfielders dony yet play to their strengths. I have no doubt Mowbray is working on that every day in training. I also have no doubt he is talking to all four of them about expectations, performance and how to play in our side.

The way he talks about them in interviews as if they’re children..

In one breath saying someone isn’t ready for months because he can’t speak the language is condescending but even aside from that before the international break he says Rusyn needs a goal but then drags him off at half time as soon as he gets a start (because in TM own words “he missed a few chances”).

So now there’s talk of him starting Mayenda against Huddersfield, what does he do if he has a poor game? That’s Rusyn dropped for missing a few chances, he won’t play Hemir because he’s apparently not ready yet and publically stated he would probably be starting if he took his 1 on 1 against Southampton saying he’d be more confident if he got a goal.. but then won’t play him.

Is it a race to whoever can score the first goal in the 45 minutes they’re given to prove they should be our striker?

 

[FellTop]

The way he talks about them in interviews as if they’re children..

In one breath saying someone isn’t ready for months because he can’t speak the language is condescending but even aside from that before the international break he says Rusyn needs a goal but then drags him off at half time as soon as he gets a start (because in TM own words “he missed a few chances”).

So now there’s talk of him starting Mayenda against Huddersfield, what does he do if he has a poor game? That’s Rusyn dropped for missing a few chances, he won’t play Hemir because he’s apparently not ready yet and publically stated he would probably be starting if he took his 1 on 1 against Southampton saying he’d be more confident if he got a goal.. but then won’t play him.

Is it a race to whoever can score the first goal in the 45 minutes they’re given to prove they should be our striker?

You are interpreting Mowbrays interviews differently to me. I have never felt he talks about them like they are children. Nor do I think he is condescending. In fact I cant think of a less condescending manager in our recent history.

Sadly being a coach isnt as simplistic as we might think it should be. Fans probably see less than 15% of what a player does in a week. Nor do they sit down and talk to players, review fitness data erc. Coaches see it all and talk to players all the time. We all want to see the best we can be but I dont half chuckle when fans know better than coaches. Mowbray has probably forgotten more about managing players and matches than any of us have ever dreamed existed.

 

[Essayyeffcee]

I'll just leave this here

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...pywoqQ5_FdkM5y6xvWazPEl5TxsGn9hAc78vKtGFbfY5A

 

[clockstander]

The way he talks about them in interviews as if they’re children..

In one breath saying someone isn’t ready for months because he can’t speak the language is condescending but even aside from that before the international break he says Rusyn needs a goal but then drags him off at half time as soon as he gets a start (because in TM own words “he missed a few chances”).

So now there’s talk of him starting Mayenda against Huddersfield, what does he do if he has a poor game? That’s Rusyn dropped for missing a few chances, he won’t play Hemir because he’s apparently not ready yet and publically stated he would probably be starting if he took his 1 on 1 against Southampton saying he’d be more confident if he got a goal.. but then won’t play him.

Is it a race to whoever can score the first goal in the 45 minutes they’re given to prove they should be our striker?

We have to remember the situation at the start of the season we had a lot of injuries , and a lot of coming and goings, we were feeling our way in all three areas of the team. Two out of the four new strikers mentioned were injured both Hemir in particular and Burstow (despite a run of games) both struggled to make any impression, only Clarke provided much threat at all up front. Mayenda , Rusyn and especially Adil have looked a step up in recent games and could provide the vital spark, Bennet is another who has not yet had a chance to show us what he can provide, why? who knows.
On the plus side we are still well in contention for a play-off spot coming up to Xmas and I would have gladly accepted that at the start of the season.
With particular reference to your last line I see no reason not to give two strikers 45 minutes apiece in such a crowded programme, as long as players are getting a chance they will feel part of the squad and from what I witness they all look that they feel just that. Once one does hit the net, I only hope that the others are not ostracised, but get as much game time as situations allow , they all have something to offer I am sure , and there is still a long way to go, to this seasons culmination. OaU,

 

[marcusblackcat]

No you’re right we need to be better up the other end of the pitch of course we do - but how can other teams defend 20+ attempts before conceding yet we can’t defend 2?

I think there’s work to be done all over the pitch I’ve never said just replacing O’nien will do that but it’ll certainly help us stop conceding so easily imo. Having a proper DM will also enforce that.

We’ve neglected the spine of our team and it’s showing. You can have all the talent in the world but without the discipline and organisation it leads to inconsistency where you see us torture teams one week then struggle against poor but well organised teams the next.

“Can’t defend 2” or “can’t shoot as well as the opposition” are not one and the same. How many shots did we scuff or mis hit?
The first was poor from the full back, but an absolute worldy of a strike. That’s nothing to do with defending when it’s hit like that. We got into those exact positions and put them in the crowd! Or passed them back to the opposing keeper. Poor finishing has cost us way more than poor defending this season.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

“Can’t defend 2” or “can’t shoot as well as the opposition” are not one and the same. How many shots did we scuff or mis hit?
The first was poor from the full back, but an absolute worldy of a strike. That’s nothing to do with defending when it’s hit like that. We got into those exact positions and put them in the crowd! Or passed them back to the opposing keeper. Poor finishing has cost us way more than poor defending this season.

Rotherham 1 SoT 1 goal.
Preston 2 SoT 2 goals.
QPR 2 SoT (1 in last minute) 1 goal.
Plymouth 2 SoT 2 goals.
Cardiff 2 SoT 1 goal
Norwich 2 SoT 1 goal

It’s a recurring theme, we don’t concede 30 yard rockets every week. Either everyone in the championship has world class finishers or we’re allowing our opposition much easier chances than they’re allowing us. Against Plymouth first was a worldy second was the defence being completely out of position.

 

[marcusblackcat]

Rotherham 1 SoT 1 goal.
Preston 2 SoT 2 goals.
QPR 2 SoT (1 in last minute) 1 goal.
Plymouth 2 SoT 2 goals.
Cardiff 2 SoT 1 goal
Norwich 2 SoT 1 goal

It’s a recurring theme, we don’t concede 30 yard rockets every week. Either everyone in the championship has world class finishers or we’re allowing our opposition much easier chances than they’re allowing us. Against Plymouth first was a worldy second was the defence being completely out of position.

Keeper a well. It was poor from Patterson and the defence. Would you have been happy with a 0-0? I think, on balance and chances, We should’ve comfortably won that on Saturday. Even conceding 2, we should STILL have comfortably won. That’s not the defences fault.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Keeper a well. It was poor from Patterson and the defence. Would you have been happy with a 0-0? I think, on balance and chances, We should’ve comfortably won that on Saturday. Even conceding 2, we should STILL have comfortably won. That’s not the defences fault.

Of course I’d be happier with a 0-0 that’s the point. When you can’t take your chances but keep a clean sheet it’s not the end of the world, it’s frustrating but nothing more. You take the point and move on it’s confidence for the defence. When you dominate the game then concede from pretty much nothing it’s demoralising for the players and the fans, a somewhat decent but lacking performance is now a loss.

Look at the PL last season, the mags scored less than Liverpool whilst winning the same amount of games but their defence was considerably better. When they didn’t win they got the draw and those draws are what carried them over the line for CL football.

 

[clockstander]

Keeper a well. It was poor from Patterson and the defence. Would you have been happy with a 0-0? I think, on balance and chances, We should’ve comfortably won that on Saturday. Even conceding 2, we should STILL have comfortably won. That’s not the defences fault.

You could also argue that Plymouth missed two of the easiest chances to score in the second half and could claim that they should have won 4-0 it was that sort of game, you have to admit that on the day we also could easily have won 4-0 it was that sort of game, very frustrating for us, but proves that anyboby can beat anybody else in this league , its so tight no game is a walk over, however much we would all like it to be.

 

[marcusblackcat]

Of course I’d be happier with a 0-0 that’s the point. When you can’t take your chances but keep a clean sheet it’s not the end of the world, it’s frustrating but nothing more. You take the point and move on it’s confidence for the defence. When you dominate the game then concede from pretty much nothing it’s demoralising for the players and the fans, a somewhat decent but lacking performance is now a loss.

Look at the PL last season, the mags scored less than Liverpool whilst winning the same amount of games but their defence was considerably better. When they didn’t win they got the draw and those draws are what carried them over the line for CL football.

Nicely avoided. I didn’t say happier. I said happy. Which you conveniently ignored. You answered the question with hindsight. Easy thing to do that.

why would I want to look at statistics of the mags. I have zero interest in them. You don’t want anyone else comparing our players to this player or that player, yet you want to constantly compare about champions league etc. Newcastle spent millions on experienced expensive players, we signed youngsters. You’re comparing apples with oranges. Ridiculous comparison to make

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Nicely avoided. I didn’t say happier. I said happy. Which you conveniently ignored. You answered the question with hindsight. Easy thing to do that.

why would I want to look at statistics of the mags. I have zero interest in them. You don’t want anyone else comparing our players to this player or that player, yet you want to constantly compare about champions league etc. Newcastle spent millions on experienced expensive players, we signed youngsters. You’re comparing apples with oranges. Ridiculous comparison to make

What on earth are you talking about? Yes I would be HAPPY with a 0-0 because 1 point is better than 0.

Rusyn was probably one of the most expensive strikers in the league by the way. Everyone has signed youngsters in this division.

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/20...ism-of-hemir-will-serve-no-purpose-whatsoever


Must’ve decided to write an article after reading this thread…

 

[marcusblackcat]

What on earth are you talking about? Yes I would be HAPPY with a 0-0 because 1 point is better than 0.

Rusyn was probably one of the most expensive strikers in the league by the way. Everyone has signed youngsters in this division.

Again completely ignoring the context of the post. I’ll spell it out for you. Before kick off on Saturday, would you have been happy with 0-0? I even mentioned hindsight in the last post. Christ you’re hard work

 

[WorkyTicketFTM]

Again completely ignoring the context of the post. I’ll spell it out for you. Before kick off on Saturday, would you have been happy with 0-0? I even mentioned hindsight in the last post. Christ you’re hard work

You never once said before kick off..? You said would I be happy with a draw to which I said yes considering we lost.