The defensive errors have to stop!

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"Finally, i'm pretty pissed off with Holt's antics"

longsight, I mentioned that on a separate thread last night - and got severely pilloried for it <doh>
Reassuring to know I'm not the only person who feels he could contribute more by standing strong, even if he does get his share of 'treatment' from centre backs.
 
Dangerous Marsupial said:
Our defence was the best part of our team that game, its the midfield who let the side down...
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Arsenal did seem to cut through the midfield easily. Whats the solution to that with what we have got now (given we have got Manchester city soon)? Drop Wes and play 4-5-1? it doesn't seem like the formation with him in it has worked against the bigger teams

It's a shame we didn't create more chances at home, but arsenal are on a role. The performance against qpr is now going to be massive
 
I think the fact that Arsenal wrecked your defence is more down to Arsenal than yourselves. You employed the old tactic against Arsenal in trying to choke our midfield. Since the departure of Nasri we now have two proper wingers who don't rely on inch-perfect service from Cesc. You actually more or less kept Arteta, Ramsey and Song deep and out of the game. But with the form of our front three you didn't really have much of a chance.

That said, sort out your fullbacks! This league is full of good wingers who will do what Gervinho and Theo did. Mata, Young, Valencia, Nani, Kuyt, Bale, Adam Johnson and so forth.

I liked watching you last year when you had Lansbury on loan there and I hope you stay up. Good luck for the season!
 
canary_max said:
Arsenal did seem to cut through the midfield easily. Whats the solution to that with what we have got now (given we have got Manchester city soon)? Drop Wes and play 4-5-1? it doesn't seem like the formation with him in it has worked against the bigger teams

It's a shame we didn't create more chances at home, but arsenal are on a role. The performance against qpr is now going to be massive
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The solution is to not misplace simple passes. Pretty much every Arsenal attack against us was from a cheap give-away of possession, we sort that out we concede less chances and create more of our own. Out defence wasn't wrecked at all, Leon Barnett and Russell Martin where supreme, Tierney and Naughton where ok. It was the midfield who got wrecked.
 
rannaramshere said:
I think the fact that Arsenal wrecked your defence is more down to Arsenal than yourselves. You employed the old tactic against Arsenal in trying to choke our midfield. Since the departure of Nasri we now have two proper wingers who don't rely on inch-perfect service from Cesc. You actually more or less kept Arteta, Ramsey and Song deep and out of the game. But with the form of our front three you didn't really have much of a chance.

That said, sort out your fullbacks! This league is full of good wingers who will do what Gervinho and Theo did. Mata, Young, Valencia, Nani, Kuyt, Bale, Adam Johnson and so forth.

I liked watching you last year when you had Lansbury on loan there and I hope you stay up. Good luck for the season!
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Whilst your points are all valid listing players from the top six clubs who can beat us on most occasions isn't really relevant.If you could list Wigan,Blackburn,Bolton,Sunderland,Wolves and Stoke players who could do it I would be far more worried.
 
we didn't play well on saturday. arsenal didn't need to get anywhere near the top of their game to beat us more convincingly than the scoreline suggests. at the end of the day its a bonus game - one we were expected to lose anyway - but it was the manner of the performance which annoyed me. we never got going, we never passed the ball well, too many aimless punts downfield to nobody, too many last ditch moments at the back (though most were well dealt with), not enough width. when bennett came on we looked more dangerous. people may say the main difference between the teams was van persie but on another day we'd have been tonked. we started the game too slowly, the atmosphere was muted, everything felt flat throughout the match. it was very disappointing that we didn't give a better account of ourselves. i feel we only played at about 60% of what we are capable of. credit to arsenal who closed us deep in our half (barca style) and gave us no time to breathe, but that is why i think jackson could have been useful in that situation with balls over the top. we didn't seem to have a plan b at the weekend which is unusual for lambert. hardly a result that means the end of the world is nigh but we will have to make a massive improvement in performance to beat qpr next weekend!
 
You say on another day we could have been thrashed but on another day we could have won playing like that. Just look at man united 8-2 arsenal and man city 6-1 man united.
 
wonky, do you really believe playing like we did on saturday we could have won? we were well off the pace, slow to compete and press and our passing was sloppy; in reality a heavier defeat would have been a perfectly fair outcome based on that 90 minutes of football. i'm pleased we managed to keep the score down thanks to a combination of excellent last-ditch defending, good goalkeeping and arsenal's profligacy in front of goal. i was disappointed by our overall performance but i'm not too concerned because as i say, it wasn't a vital match for us - but if we play poorly against qpr they have more than enough weapons to beat us too - we need to perform much better than we have in the previous three matches, thats all i'm saying. we are more than capable of doing that <ok>
 
Couldnt agree more Superman, We still it seems riding our luck as we have done in the last few games now. The gaps we left all through our defense were huge and whilst its very fair to say players like Walcott & Vin Persie would look good against most teams, I really think we need to up our defensive game if we want to survive, we cant rely on luck and last ditch defending for every game of a season. We got off lightly on Saturday against the Gunners and were even more fortunate against Liverpool. What I want to understand is what's happened to Tierney? he has really struggled in the last few matches as far as I can see? Is it the midfield leaving him exposed?
 
I know there's a vast gulf in class, but last season didn't Fox play quite deep, affording the defence a bit of extra protection, almost like the old Ian Crook style sweeper?

I know Fox had a poor game by his standards on Saturday but with the pace of Walcott, RVP and Gervinho running riot, the defence needed all the protection it could get.
 
good points paddon and cromer. i think in relation to both tierney and naughton, they both have come up against outstanding performers in the past couple of games. agbonlahor was unplayable and walcott and gervinho had very good games. both full backs kept diving in which is what happens when you are fearful of pace (that or you continuously back off). against top players we WILL have difficulty, but then every team does in this division - even the best defenders!

personally i get the feeling that lambert has been a bit more concerned about the opposition and what they might do to us than focusing on what WE are good at. our major strengths in our squad are our work rate and our passing - neither were on show on saturday. we backed off, we lunged in but we didn't do the one thing really needed - pressing the ball! arsenal had oceans of space in the midfield to do what they cared and were therefore able to pick us off with one, key pass each time.

of course, we don't have to play arsenal every week but i was disappointed that we surrendered to them so easily. if we play in such a passive manner again, against ANY opposition, we will be punished. back to basics, get some pace (jackson) up front with morison, get some width back and lets play OUR game and give our opponents something to worry about <ok>
 
interesting points being made here by people who were at the game. MOTD didn't really show much of how we played in the 10 mins of highlights. what i did see showed our midfield being cut through like a knife through butter.

I'm all up for playing the formation against certain opposition, but as superman says, i think we need to play the two wingers again with the tierney and naughton supporting them - that was the formation we were playing well with before. And press the ball more, move up the field etc. See what QPR with gabbidon and Ferdinand do against the wingers

let's face it, we haven't kept a clean sheet all season and we aren't about to do it on saturday, so we need to be attack minded - not just one attacker. what about the following formation, although i will be amazed if PL drops Wes:

ruddy
tierney martin barnett naughton
pilks johnson fox benett
morrison jackson
 
max, totally with you on that team selection for saturday <ok>

its a positive team, but its also suitably balanced. wes has not been at the races of late so popping him on the bench may spur him on. he may also be a useful weapon to throw on late on, along with holt if things aren't going to plan. i feel vaughan would be playing up front with morison if fit so lets try jackson. he has the pace to make a difference, something wes lacks.

as for motd, it is never a good indicator of 90 minutes of football - it usually seems to depend on who the video editor supports! if anything he was probably a spurs fan, because motd made us look more competitive than we were on the day. what worried me most of all was how sluggish we looked. we can't afford to be off the pace in this league!
 
Fair comments there. Wes was dropped last year a few times and it did work from memory for a few games. I don't like playing 1 out and out striker at home, it's far too defensive. Let's see on Saturday what the gaffer does.

as for MOTD, well it's all there is if you don't have SKY. you're right about the highlights point and how they are shown. I tend to avoid all the 'expert' analysis as basically we all know the regulars are dinosaurs. Gary Linekar with a goatie also gave me the fear.
I quite like MOTD2 as Lee Dixon is often on it, he's much better <ok>
 
yes, dixon is a very good pundit <ok>

disagree that 4-5-1 is defensive - it is only defensive if you don't push the wide players forward and have two supporting midfielders. on saturday we had nobody other than pilks bombing forward so it didn't work. lambert tried to control the midfield by flooding it with combative players but unfortunately none of our three played anywhere near the top of their game so we lost out there and out wide! better away from home as a counter attacking formation!
 
ok maybe not defensive, but i guess i meant having two strikers on, in theoy they are more likely to know how to find the net than that extra midfielder. i'm not the gaffer though!
 
I fear that a few of you are forgetting who we were playing and how they play. I also think that you are deluding yourselves if you think there are Premiership quality defenders laying around waiting for a chance to sign for us cheaply. Wenger knows more about the Premiership than most but despite spending millions he still has only one good central defender. You talk about our errors but what about our goal - how much did Wenger spend on him? To be absolutely fair he is a proven German International but if he can make mistakes it is nonsense to suggest that our players, who are still getting used to this league, can't. Arsenal are very mobile and help each other out. The wingers, in particular, fall back into midfield and they all put you under pressure when you have the ball. If you play 2 up front against them they will dominate midfield, if you flood midfield ( as we did ) and play just 1 up front, your midfield can only pass sideways and eventually, under pressure, make a mistake and lose the ball. Arsenal have the pace of their wingers to break a midfield stalemate. If you try to just attack them, as Blackpool did, they hammer you on the counter attack and if you try to just defend against them then they go round you on the flanks, As a team they are very very clever and to even think beforehand that we would get anything out of this game was wishful thinking. We have got to accept the inevitable and move on. The only other point I would make is that when DeLaet was making mistakes there was an almighty clamour for him to be dropped. I don't hear the same demand for heads to roll now that other defenders are making the mistakes. Time for DeLaet to be recalled perhaps - after all he does have a bit of pace about him.
 
I fear that a few of you are forgetting who we were playing and how they play. I also think that you are deluding yourselves if you think there are Premiership quality defenders laying around waiting for a chance to sign for us cheaply. Wenger knows more about the Premiership than most but despite spending millions he still has only one good central defender. You talk about our errors but what about our goal - how much did Wenger spend on him? To be absolutely fair he is a proven German International but if he can make mistakes it is nonsense to suggest that our players, who are still getting used to this league, can't. Arsenal are very mobile and help each other out. The wingers, in particular, fall back into midfield and they all put you under pressure when you have the ball. If you play 2 up front against them they will dominate midfield, if you flood midfield ( as we did ) and play just 1 up front, your midfield can only pass sideways and eventually, under pressure, make a mistake and lose the ball. Arsenal have the pace of their wingers to break a midfield stalemate. If you try to just attack them, as Blackpool did, they hammer you on the counter attack and if you try to just defend against them then they go round you on the flanks, As a team they are very very clever and to even think beforehand that we would get anything out of this game was wishful thinking. We have got to accept the inevitable and move on. The only other point I would make is that when DeLaet was making mistakes there was an almighty clamour for him to be dropped. I don't hear the same demand for heads to roll now that other defenders are making the mistakes. Time for DeLaet to be recalled perhaps - after all he does have a bit of pace about him.
 
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