In a way it doesn't matter who destroyed the hospital ( except to the poor beings in there), it was destroyed. Each side will blame the other, supporters of both sides will believe their own rhetoric. It will be used now and forever as an atrocity
Sadly Beth I think it will be forgotten by most of the world within a couple of weeks. There are further, fresher atrocities to come, but they will be forgotten too. If we didn’t forget these things how could we endlessly repeat them?
Looking at the pictures the hospital only lost a few roof tiles It seemed to matter to the Arab leaders It seemed to matter to the west bank protestors Or were they protesting against the gaza terrorists
In response to the hate marches over the last days, Robin Simcox, the independent commissioner for countering extremism, has said the hate preachers in mosques peddling antisemitic conspiracy theories, the hate marches where antisemitic chanting includes wanting to **** their mothers and rape their daughters, the physicall threats to Jewish or Israeli people, the vandalism against Jewish homes, schools and businesses are : "the price that the UK is paying for a three-decade-long failed policy mix of mass immigration and multiculturalism. The UK is one of the world's most succesful multi-ethnic democracies - but that success relies on a basic level of integration. We cannot continue to permit vast numbers of people to come to the UK, and tell them they do not need to integrate, that they can maintain certain values and ideas that are at odds with British values." That's well said. Furthermore, in a week that has seen an asylum seeker charged with the murder of a British citizen, and one that has been jailed for 11 years for running a £50m illegal migration operation bringing in 10,000 illegal migrants in dinghies into the UK, we are now facing calls to take in Gazans (including, doubtless, Hamas operators that would like nothing more than to behead any passing British Jew). No thanks. Let Arab countries take them in, particularly Iran that is at the base of the recent troubles. We should provide aid to Gazans to assist them in situ.
Really it doesn't matter who destroyed the hospital - so called ''friendly fire'' is possible ie. a Hamas missile misfired or an Israeli missile did the damage - and highly sophisticated weapons do misfire as well, the Americans whilst bombing Serbia managed to land them on Bulgarian territory as well. If it was an Israeli rocket I don't believe it was intended for a hospital - but both sides know that their rockets can, and mostly do, take the lives of civilians - the old, the children etc. yet they still keep firing them. The IDF know that they will end up killing 10 innocent people for every one Hamas fighter yet carry on with it regardless - they have proved this time and time again. I guess it must be difficult bombing such a densely populated area as the Gaza Strip without killing civilians as well - but why is it so densely populated ? Because the Israeli occupiers have taken all the best land and penned the Palestinian population into ghettos. But both sides are firing off these rockets, the main difference being that the Israelis have more of them and make a bigger bang, a bigger hole and produce more dead - wherever they land in such a densely populated area as the Gaza Strip they are going to kill innocent people, and there are a lot of children in Gaza. But this is only partly about Hamas and military targets, partly it is also about collective punishment and ethnic cleansing of the area (they call it forced evacuation of the north but the chances of them ever returning is zero, so it equals ethnic cleansing).
Certainly seemed to matter to a lot of people all around the world when it was definitely the Israelis that did it
By-elections today. Feels like the lack of tactical voting will see a Tory squirm in in Bedfordshire where Dorries was basically on strike for a year. Stupid ****s. Tories narrowly odds-on with Labour around 6/4 and the Libs drifting from 4/1 yesterday to 7/1.
We all need to remember that Jewishness does not equal Zionism or the State of Israel. Many Jews are against what the state of Israel does and feel ashamed of it - there have been Jewish demonstrations against the way Palestinians have been treated and we need to support these to show that Jews are not all like Netanyahu and his bunch of Fascists. we also need to confront this idea that criticism of Israel equals Anti Semitism (too late to save Jeremy Corbyn I'm afraid) because when the Government of Israel use this as a shield it acquates Israel with Jewishness in many people's minds. The oppression of the Palestinian people is directly contradictory to the Talmud and is deeply anti Jewish - the government of Israel is the most Anti Semitic group of all ! Unfortunately when countries do nasty things in the World it leads to a cultural reaction - like after the Russian invasion of Ukraine people suddenly stopped inviting Russian artists or musicians to events, and some book stalls started taking Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky off their shelves - pathetic.
This is all good common sense, but unfortunately, we have hate marchers in the UK, that don't look further for their enemy than if he or she is Jewish. Schools have had to close. Jewish people have had to change how they dress, so they cannot be identified. We and the rest of Europe know, too, that there are fanatical Islamists in our midst, that care more about killing an infidel, than they do about their own lives. Recent killings in France and Belgium alone. Some speak of a widening war as a result of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and God forbid there is one that draws in Europe - but if there was, Europe would find it had a sizeable and deadly Fifth Column in its midst.
Again Goldie most Muslims are honest and peacefull people and do not refer to either Jews or Christians as infidels - in fact the Khoran refers to both of these groups as people of the book. Islam does not equal fanaticism any more than Israel equals Jewishness or Hamas equals Palestinians, or Russians = Putin's thugs. We need to reach out to moderate Muslems - the vast majority. The creation of Israel in that place and at that time was a mistake - as if the Arabs had to give up land because of a human rights violation in Europe and a 2,000 year old claim. Admit it - but there is nothing we can do now to reverse it and so it must remain in that place, but we need to find a solution for the other half of Palestine and support it with as many resources as Israel had from the West. Way back in time Jews and Arabs lived together peacefully and it can come again.
I didn't say that most Muslims are not honest and peaceful people, Cologne. I'm referring to the Islamists, the extremists in the UK and Europe. 39 terror plots have been foiled here in the last 5 years: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/39-terror-plots-foiled-in-five-years/ Imagine how bad it would be if there was a war where the West were supporting Israel. In the meantime, antisemitism is growing in the UK, something that hasn't been seen since the 1930's. And Islamists are randomly killing people across Europe. It is more than possible that Hamas members will seek refuge in parts of Europe, and then continue their dark arts here. That's the truth of the matter and it's a matter of real concern.
Sorry, but have you just called the Holocaust a ‘human rights violation’? Its this kind of stuff which tends to undermine your passionately held and often well argued position. And we’ve been ‘reaching out’ to moderate Muslims for 25 years with little discernible impact. A lot of people on those marches aren’t even Muslim. Sadly there are plenty of people of different religions and political persuasions who are blindly anti Israel and many (but not all) use this as a cloak for anti semitism. They, and the fanatical Muslims, all share something in common - adherence to a monolithic ideology (religion by definition and extreme political ideologies of both left and right) which gives them a complete, moronic, world view and means that they always right (in their own heads) and never have to listen to anyone else. It’s ****ing terrifying. But you are right, it’s most likely the fanatical Muslims who are going to try and kill as many of us as they can, and I fear that Sunak today upped the chances by saying that ‘we want you to win’ to Netanyahu without specifying that was win against Hamas, rather than all Palestinians. Has our terror alert level been raised? Still looking like a complete clusterfuck from every perspective.
I did call the holocaust a human rights violation SB. not because I wanted to downplay it but couldn't think of the necessary expletives to describe it. That's the only reason - it was of course the biggest horror in World history with only the Japanese horrors in China competing with it. To learn from the horrors of this not to stereotype people into groups or races in a negative way must be an aim for all of us. You see we have to be so carefull with language these days ! Of course it was far more than just a human rights violation and I didn't wish to insinuate otherwise. Whilst on the subject - whilst we remember the holocaust, the hidden holocaust we don't remember so well namely that the Roma or Sinti (called Romany or Gypsy) suffered proportionally to their population worse than the Jews did through those dreadfull years - yet who now remembers that or acts on it ? Still amongst the most discriminated against groups in Europe (and in Israel !). When do they get a country given to them, where would it be, and would they want it ?
It’s difficult to avoid thinking that avoiding using the commonly recognised word for the Holocaust, ie Holocaust, is an attempt to downplay or deflect from its enormity, but hey. The ongoing use of words like Holocaust and pogrom in relation to the Hamas attacks will devalue them in the end. We can’t solve any of the world’s injustices on here. Should the Welsh get East Anglia back, or the 16,000 Lenape Indians on their reservations in Oklahoma and Wisconsin be offered Manhattan? Moral relativism excuses everything ultimately. In the meantime people are being killed in the Levant. I looked into the history because I felt ignorant about it. We need to get the ****ers on all sides to address the present rather than living in some vortex of grievance, injustice and fear. Sadly I can’t see us succeeding.
Not much into word games Stan - the Holocaust was the single biggest concentrated cruelty in European history. But for the Arabs at that time it was far away - something which they heard about but had no part in - a part of European history. In order to compensate for its sins European people took away a part of their land and gave it to other Europeans and its been extending its borders ever since.
