Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
Uber_Hoop said:
I would have said that "man-made climate change" is real, but whether little ol' Britain should be cutting off its nose to spite its face to further reduce its estimated 1-2% contribution is debatable. I read somewhere recently that any carbon reduction we're able to achieve will be very quickly more than offset by the coughsplatters being churned out by China, India, Vietnam etc. I don't particularly want to ride around everywhere on a bicycle eating turnips for the rest of my naturals.
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That's the usual cop-out, I'm afraid. Why should we bother if not everyone else is?

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
Stroller said:
Stainesy doesn't know what the term neo-liberal means Goldie, that's not what what O'Brien is. Nor is he far left, though - I'd categorise him as centre-left.

It seems to me that a few people on here have a false impression of O'Brien's show and should try listening to it.
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This one was good
 
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Staines R's said:
You e got to give it to her….she’s ****ed over the whole country in front of our eyes and we do nothing about it……
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I can’t today as I’ve got a couple of meetings and out for dinner later. Tomorrow I’m in the office. Thursday I could do some rioting I guess on my lunch hour but I was going to go to the gym. Maybe Friday if Friday is good for everyone.
 
Stroller said:
How, pray?
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OK, being sensible for a moment (which is a challenge for me in this increasingly bizarre world)...

I don't think 'cop out' is the right term to use for your stance, so I take that back. I think it's admirable that people like you want to do their bit against the perceived climate crisis. It's just that I don't see the point. I suppose I'm not as nice as you. I have a jaundiced view of much of the world these days and increasingly being told to make sacrifices and being preached at gets my goat. The fact is that whatever we try to do won't even make a dent in the overall picture and such a futile gesture won't matter a jot to the Indians and especially the Chinese.

Overpopulation and an increasingly ageing one, and the overconsumption of resources as a consequence, is the cause of this. More and more people are migrating to regions like ours because they want the same standard of living. You can't blame them, but this means the demand will continue to increase to consume more and more resources until the land is ruined and/or there's nothing left. It's inexorable. Mankind has a proven track record of this, from the Fertile Crescent to Easter Island and beyond. It won't be long before there are arguments over British fields: do we grow food on them, build more houses or install solar farms?
 
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Uber_Hoop said:
OK, being sensible for a moment (which is a challenge for me in this increasingly bizarre world)...

I don't think 'cop out' is the right term to use for your stance, so I take that back. I think it's admirable that people like you want to do their bit against the perceived climate crisis. It's just that I don't see the point. I suppose I'm not as nice as you. I have a jaundiced view of much of the world these days and increasingly being told to make sacrifices and being preached at gets my goat. The fact is that whatever we try to do won't even make a dent in the overall picture and such a futile gesture won't matter a jot to the Indians and especially the Chinese.

Overpopulation and an increasingly ageing one, and the overconsumption of resources as a consequence, is the cause of this. More and more people are migrating to regions like ours because they want the same standard of living. You can't blame them, but this means the demand will continue to increase to consume more and more resources until the land is ruined and/or there's nothing left. It's inexorable. Mankind has a proven track record of this, from the Fertile Crescent to Easter Island and beyond. It won't be long before there are arguments over British fields: do we grow food on them, build more houses or install solar farms?
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I think that’s fair. You’re right that even if we here all went to living in mud huts it would make next to no difference to the world.

I also think a lot of things sold to people as being green and then made out to be anti-motorist/“hardworking taxpayers” are just good for society and can make this a better place to live. If they were sold to people that way they’d be more popular. Reducing congestion/pollution has more benefits to people than some intangible concept of saving the planet, for example. LTNs are generally popular except for a vocal minority.
 
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Bwood_Ranger said:
61% for, 29% against.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...w-traffic-neighbourhoods-residents-survey.pdf

Some nice Guardian articles too if you’re interested.
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That's a survey of residents rather than everyone including all road users.

Here are some of the arguments against:

  • Increased traffic congestion on surrounding roads
  • Increased pollution due to idling traffic
  • Negative effect on businesses and livelihoods
  • Carers unable to reach their patient/relative
  • Increase in mental health issues
  • Emergency services unable to get through in a timely way
  • No red route allowing public transport to run freely and more frequently
  • Over 75% of the local residents voted against the scheme
  • No consistent ongoing monitoring of traffic is being carried out during the trial
  • The effect on businesses and livelihoods
  • Negative impact on persons with protected characteristics. If you have a disability or impairment, has the LTN made it difficult for you to travel or for people to visit/care for you
  • Unsafe movement of vehicles – have you witnessed any unsafe movement of vehicles in your street e.g. large trucks reversing elngthy routes
  • Impeded access to residential properties
 
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Goldhawk-Road said:
That's a survey of residents rather than everyone including all road users.

Here are some of the arguments against:

  • Increased traffic congestion on surrounding roads
  • Increased pollution due to idling traffic
  • Negative effect on businesses and livelihoods
  • Carers unable to reach their patient/relative
  • Increase in mental health issues
  • Emergency services unable to get through in a timely way
  • No red route allowing public transport to run freely and more frequently
  • Over 75% of the local residents voted against the scheme
  • No consistent ongoing monitoring of traffic is being carried out during the trial
  • The effect on businesses and livelihoods
  • Negative impact on persons with protected characteristics. If you have a disability or impairment, has the LTN made it difficult for you to travel or for people to visit/care for you
  • Unsafe movement of vehicles – have you witnessed any unsafe movement of vehicles in your street e.g. large trucks reversing elngthy routes
  • Impeded access to residential properties
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The views of the people living there are probably more important than the bod who wants to drive his Merc through their neighbourhood. Some of those sound like absolute bollocks used to flesh out a few bullet points.
 
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