Dr Strangelove (how I learned to stop worrying and love Boris)

[Sunderpitt]

It is 100% the right idea in my opinion. Some of the degress offered are daft with little prospect of jobs in that field. This has to be married to a highly effective technical education route, including apprenticeships. Degree apprenticeships are a brilliant route, a real success of the government, we just need a lot more of it and a curriculum that values it

STEM...

 

[gelders pie]

Government to 'clamp down' on poor quality degrees.

Caps to be imposed on courses with high dropout rates or low levels of graduates getting professional jobs.

Not a bad idea I think. We've spent thirty years telling kids the only way to get on is with a degree and a lot of them end up with a worthless piece of paper, masses of student debt, and three years behind their peers entering the workplace. And we've also got very few kids doing practical ( and often more financially rewarding)jobs like plumbing.

We've got to get apprenticeships going at the same time as cutting these courses though.

I’ve said for years that if someone isn’t academically gifted or interested , then they’ll never succeed in biology , geography etc. so do a deal with them - let them drop those subjects replacing them with metalwork , trades, etc on the condition that they also take on ( and work hard at) business studies , simple accounts , with a view to running their own trade businesses . There’s probably still loads of lads who just want to follow in dads plumber/ electrician footsteps

 

[Montysoptician]

Government to 'clamp down' on poor quality degrees.

Caps to be imposed on courses with high dropout rates or low levels of graduates getting professional jobs.

Not a bad idea I think. We've spent thirty years telling kids the only way to get on is with a degree and a lot of them end up with a worthless piece of paper, masses of student debt, and three years behind their peers entering the workplace. And we've also got very few kids doing practical ( and often more financially rewarding)jobs like plumbing.

We've got to get apprenticeships going at the same time as cutting these courses though.

Agree with you 100%, some people are academically and some are vocationally minded and there is a need for both in society.

One of the Labour tenets that I have disagreed with over the years is access to a university education for all, we are not all the same and society needs a range of skills.

I am not academic and would have hated university, my kids have degrees but it wouldn't have suited me, I am time served and indentured and worked in heavy industry until it's decline in 1979/80 then found a completely different path to follow. It's obvious to me that the decline in manufacturing was managed and the availability of apprenticeships reduced accordingly.

 

[Blond Bombshell]

It is 100% the right idea in my opinion. Some of the degress offered are daft with little prospect of jobs in that field. This has to be married to a highly effective technical education route, including apprenticeships. Degree apprenticeships are a brilliant route, a real success of the government, we just need a lot more of it and a curriculum that values it

We also have to ask why these degrees are offered, there's a rabbit off somewhere, someone is making money out of these.

 

[The Exile II]

We also have to ask why these degrees are offered, there's a rabbit off somewhere, someone is making money out of these.

Student loan companies and universities.

 

[DH4]

We also have to ask why these degrees are offered, there's a rabbit off somewhere, someone is making money out of these.

The Universities and the owners of "student accommodation" make a fortune as, even if the "student" never earns enough to pay back the "loans" the taxpayer picks up the bill. Jobs a gud un for those private landlords as there is an endless conveyer belt of new "students".

 

[FellTop]

Student loan companies and universities.

Universities are charities and as such make no money. Arguably, the the freeze on tuition fees that has been in place for so long has made many financially vulnerable. Student Loan Company is also a not for profit organisation. Nobody is making any real money here, barring possibly some private landlords, but they have no influence of degree curriculum or awards.

 

[Sunderpitt]

Universities are charities and as such make no money. Arguably, the the freeze on tuition fees that has been in place for so long has made many financially vulnerable. Student Loan Company is also a not for profit organisation. Nobody is making any real money here, barring possibly some private landlords, but they have no influence of degree curriculum or awards.

Because UK students pay very little; universities now have at least around 25% of their income from overseas students. Our idiot Home Secretary wants to stop overseas students coming in, cos they are counted in the immigration figures. This will make universities even less well-off.

 

[The Exile II]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/03/tuition-fees-england-universities-surplus-balance

God forbid they make less that two billion in profit, er I mean surplus balance, per year.

 

[Sunderpitt]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/03/tuition-fees-england-universities-surplus-balance

God forbid they make less that two billion in profit, er I mean surplus balance, per year.

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[The Exile II]

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So where has that money gone?

 

[FellTop]

So where has that money gone?

That was 7 years ago. No material increase in tuition fee charges in that time, but many many cost increases. Imagine an industry where you are only allowed to charge a set amount, but you still are liable to market forces, you have HE. The cost squeeze right now is mind boggling. Building projects have been massive in HE. The cost of switching to online in the pandemic was major. These surpluses dont last at all when your cost base is always outstripping your income.

Just to clear as well a surplus is never profit. Nobody can take a slice of it in dividends. There are clear guidelines, set in law, about how those are to be used. Every univeristy should run a surplus to allow investment when needed, many now are going the other way. In part I think the sector needs rationalising, and Sunaks announcement is a start. So long, like I say, we replace with good technical education routes like apprenticeships.

 

[Pure River Slut]

Agree with you 100%, some people are academically and some are vocationally minded and there is a need for both in society.

One of the Labour tenets that I have disagreed with over the years is access to a university education for all, we are not all the same and society needs a range of skills.

I am not academic and would have hated university, my kids have degrees but it wouldn't have suited me, I am time served and indentured and worked in heavy industry until it's decline in 1979/80 then found a completely different path to follow. It's obvious to me that the decline in manufacturing was managed and the availability of apprenticeships reduced accordingly.

I think what is most undervalued tbh is creativity and health.. Wellbeing is crucial even for us to make money or save costs if that’s what we put value on. I think investing in people’s skills and talents even if they aren’t industrial or academic are important to how we function as a society but currently the arts is met with disdain but health needs can’t be met because the demand is so high.

 

[Sunderpitt]

I think what is most undervalued tbh is creativity and health.. Wellbeing is crucial even for us to make money or save costs if that’s what we put value on. I think investing in people’s skills and talents even if they aren’t industrial or academic are important to how we function as a society but currently the arts is met with disdain but health needs can’t be met because the demand is so high.

I think I read that many of the health problems we have that put the NHS under strain, are preventable. Drinking, drugs, smoking, obesity and lack of exercise.
Perhaps rather than attempting to pick up the consequences of sel-harm we need to spend more resources on making us healthier?

 

[Pure River Slut]

I think I read that many of the health problems we have that put the NHS under strain, are preventable. Drinking, drugs, smoking, obesity and lack of exercise.
Perhaps rather than attempting to pick up the consequences of sel-harm we need to spend more resources on making us healthier?

Of course, it’s a logical economic argument as well as a human one and I’d argue a big part of the offer is also universal basic income, more equal share of wages, better working conditions and hours alongside celebrating culture, creativity, sport and the arts which are seen as a commodity not human necessity. I don’t think it’s too big an ask- just look at what the cabinet members and donors have stashed away, as well as tax dodging businesses. Why have such wealth when there is misery around you. It’s all achievable with a collective mindset change.

 

[Daz]

This doesn’t bode well for the party and in particular Rishi Sunak. Great use of the word “bent” mind!

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[gelders pie]

I think I read that many of the health problems we have that put the NHS under strain, are preventable. Drinking, drugs, smoking, obesity and lack of exercise.
Perhaps rather than attempting to pick up the consequences of sel-harm we need to spend more resources on making us healthier?

I agree , prevention better than cure. Closing swimming pools and leisure centres doesn’t fit in with all governments wish for healthy living .
Having said that however , I wonder wether many people would use health resources even if they were offered , many would still prefer to go the McDonalds route, the Just Eat lazy lifestyle etc . I feel sorry for those trying to make us healthy when they have to compete with the marketing of these food giants who don’t give a toss about customers or the nhs

 

[The Exile II]

That was 7 years ago. No material increase in tuition fee charges in that time, but many many cost increases. Imagine an industry where you are only allowed to charge a set amount, but you still are liable to market forces, you have HE. The cost squeeze right now is mind boggling. Building projects have been massive in HE. The cost of switching to online in the pandemic was major. These surpluses dont last at all when your cost base is always outstripping your income.

Just to clear as well a surplus is never profit. Nobody can take a slice of it in dividends. There are clear guidelines, set in law, about how those are to be used. Every univeristy should run a surplus to allow investment when needed, many now are going the other way. In part I think the sector needs rationalising, and Sunaks announcement is a start. So long, like I say, we replace with good technical education routes like apprenticeships.

They will have been making two billion a year right up until COVID, surely. Remember that even though they can't take it out, it's profit by any other name.

So they've had another six to eight billion between 2016 and 2020. Have they had to spend that in three years? On what? You could send people to the moon for that amount.
Either they're mugging someone right off or someone is mugging them right off.

 

[Pure River Slut]

I agree , prevention better than cure. Closing swimming pools and leisure centres doesn’t fit in with all governments wish for healthy living .
Having said that however , I wonder wether many people would use health resources even if they were offered , many would still prefer to go the McDonalds route, the Just Eat lazy lifestyle etc . I feel sorry for those trying to make us healthy when they have to compete with the marketing of these food giants who don’t give a toss about customers or the nhs

The fat salt and sugar tax with a clear redirection into affordable or community organised activity seems good sense to me. If healthier food was cheaper surely more would buy in. When you train you tend to eat better because there’s purpose. But pasties are cheap. Greggs rules.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

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