Off Topic Politics Thread

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You're right; I definitely wouldn't worry about some article in the New York Post.

Pretty desperate to stoke that fire when a New York article is quoting one slightly over the top teacher from a small English school.

Saying you identify as a cat is not an acceptable gender but what is being slightly hidden here is that some kids decided to be mean to the (kitten?) different child.

Having worked in education for a long time, the hidden truth is most of these kids identifying out if their gender so extremely are outsiders and often picked on. Many of them are autistic. I think the teacher was trying to be kind and went a bit heavy handed.

 

[saintrichie123]

Bang on as usual.

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[Osvaldorama]

Another 3 billion dished out to Ukraine…

Why worry about the cost of living or the poor I. This country? Let’s keep giving away as much money as we can

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

You're right; I definitely wouldn't worry about some article in the New York Post.

Are you saying because it was in the NYP it didn't happen?
Another answer that just demeans the source rather than addressing the issue it raises. Most online papers use a paywall, the NYP doesn't hence the link to them.
Nearly every online paper had a report about this absurd woman, except obviously the Guardian.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/teacher-cat-despicable-b2361573.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...r at Rye College,the Church of England school.

 

[......loading......]

Are you saying because it was in the NYP it didn't happen?
Another answer that just demeans the source rather than addressing the issue it raises. Most online papers use a paywall, the NYP doesn't hence the link to them.
Nearly every online paper had a report about this absurd woman, except obviously the Guardian.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/teacher-cat-despicable-b2361573.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/20/rye-college-children-neo-pronouns-cats-moons-rishi-sunak/#:~:text=A teacher at Rye College,the Church of England school.

Mate, this is one teacher who obviously hasn’t been well trained and - let’s be a little savvy here - who is obviously easy to wind-up. The class werre recording her before she said anything controversial- because they knew SHE was liable to overreact on this topic. This is not a SYSTEMIC problem but one woman.

You have to want to see a problem here to find one. Unless your problem is that teachers are human beings who get themselves into trouble at times.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Mate, this is one teacher who obviously hasn’t been well trained and - let’s be a little savvy here - who is obviously easy to wind-up. The class werre recording her before she said anything controversial- because they knew SHE was liable to overreact on this topic. This is not a SYSTEMIC problem but one woman.

You have to want to see a problem here to find one. Unless your problem is that teachers are human beings who get themselves into trouble at times.

You may be right about this particular teacher but the theme to her overstated viewpoint was still evident. I believe there is a systemic problem in schools regarding RSHE (ref the link below) and the gender affirmation policy. The example of the classmate identifying as a cat is obviously at the extreme end of the scale but it shows how ridiculous gender ideology in schools is and IMO harming future generations. I put the article up not because I believe every child thinks they are a cat but that even extreme beliefs have to be affirmed and that leads to nonsense like this.

If you have read any of my posts about this subject you will know that I don't believe sex change is possible (why do we even discuss it). I don't believe in non binary or gender fluid. These delusions are being put into the heads of impressionable youngsters and yes I do see problems of a very real nature. It has already lead to children having their breasts or genitals removed and/or being put on puberty blockers (long term effects have not been evaluated fully but there are concerns about brain development, cognitive function, fertility, and sexual function).

For some reason this argument has become politicised with those who speak out being accused of extreme right wing ideology and bigotry. I guess in an attempt to shut the dissenters up but it's children who are going to pay the price.

Do you still teach? If you agree, I would like to hear about your experiences in school and how RSHE was taught with regards to gender identity. Did you agree with the ideology and what was the general feeling among your teaching colleagues? I have an impression there has been no clear guidance from the DoE but that may be about to change.

I have no idea if the policyexchange is extreme right, left or centre but wondered what you think about the statement on the opening page.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/asleep-at-the-wheel/

 

[Osvaldorama]

You may be right about this particular teacher but the theme to her overstated viewpoint was still evident. I believe there is a systemic problem in schools regarding RSHE (ref the link below) and the gender affirmation policy. The example of the classmate identifying as a cat is obviously at the extreme end of the scale but it shows how ridiculous gender ideology in schools is and IMO harming future generations. I put the article up not because I believe every child thinks they are a cat but that even extreme beliefs have to be affirmed and that leads to nonsense like this.

If you have read any of my posts about this subject you will know that I don't believe sex change is possible (why do we even discuss it). I don't believe in non binary or gender fluid. These delusions are being put into the heads of impressionable youngsters and yes I do see problems of a very real nature. It has already lead to children having their breasts or genitals removed and/or being put on puberty blockers (long term effects have not been evaluated fully but there are concerns about brain development, cognitive function, fertility, and sexual function).

For some reason this argument has become politicised with those who speak out being accused of extreme right wing ideology and bigotry. I guess in an attempt to shut the dissenters up but it's children who are going to pay the price.

Do you still teach? If you agree, I would like to hear about your experiences in school and how RSHE was taught with regards to gender identity. Did you agree with the ideology and what was the general feeling among your teaching colleagues? I have an impression there has been no clear guidance from the DoE but that may be about to change.

I have no idea if the policyexchange is extreme right, left or centre but wondered what you think about the statement on the opening page.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/asleep-at-the-wheel/

Good post; I 100% agree

 

[......loading......]

You may be right about this particular teacher but the theme to her overstated viewpoint was still evident. I believe there is a systemic problem in schools regarding RSHE (ref the link below) and the gender affirmation policy. The example of the classmate identifying as a cat is obviously at the extreme end of the scale but it shows how ridiculous gender ideology in schools is and IMO harming future generations. I put the article up not because I believe every child thinks they are a cat but that even extreme beliefs have to be affirmed and that leads to nonsense like this.

If you have read any of my posts about this subject you will know that I don't believe sex change is possible (why do we even discuss it). I don't believe in non binary or gender fluid. These delusions are being put into the heads of impressionable youngsters and yes I do see problems of a very real nature. It has already lead to children having their breasts or genitals removed and/or being put on puberty blockers (long term effects have not been evaluated fully but there are concerns about brain development, cognitive function, fertility, and sexual function).

For some reason this argument has become politicised with those who speak out being accused of extreme right wing ideology and bigotry. I guess in an attempt to shut the dissenters up but it's children who are going to pay the price.

Do you still teach? If you agree, I would like to hear about your experiences in school and how RSHE was taught with regards to gender identity. Did you agree with the ideology and what was the general feeling among your teaching colleagues? I have an impression there has been no clear guidance from the DoE but that may be about to change.

I have no idea if the policyexchange is extreme right, left or centre but wondered what you think about the statement on the opening page.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/asleep-at-the-wheel/

I quit this year. However, my experience of schools is really they just try to protect everyone they can. Whatever this whole gender thing is, young people who are different deserve protecting from the savage battleground of teenage life wherever possible.

 

[The Ides of March]

I want to identify as Jamaican!!! I feel Jamaican, can mix easily with them. However, I was born white British!!

 

[Schad]

For some reason this argument has become politicised with those who speak out being accused of extreme right wing ideology and bigotry. I guess in an attempt to shut the dissenters up but it's children who are going to pay the price.

You approvingly posted the videos of an out-and-out fascist on the subject. There isn't any great need to accuse anyone of extreme right wing ideology and bigotry, given that you've told on yourself here.

And here are some real-by-god Nazis who showed up recently to protest a Drag Queen Story Hour in New Hampshire, Sieg Heiling away:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/neo-nazis-disrupt-drag-story-hour-new-hampshire-rcna90259

And here are some Nazis waving the Nazi flag (and DeSantis 2024 flags for good measure), protesting Disney:
https://news.sky.com/story/absolute...-swastika-flags-outside-disney-world-12901495

And in April, a bunch of Nazis showed up to protest an event in Ohio:
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/neo-nazi-group-protests-columbus-223840382.html

And in Tennessee, Nazis made threats against a bar:
https://wpln.org/post/neo-nazis-thr...ookeville-bar-now-the-bar-is-facing-eviction/

Those same Nazis showed up in March at a different event (and threw a Molotov cocktail through the window of the place):
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/03/14/drag-story-hour-ohio-protest-neo-nazi/

And last year, Nazis showed up to a protest in Florida:
https://www.fox13news.com/news/demo...d-charity-event-that-included-drag-performers

And in Massachusetts:
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-new...rested-in-boston-after-protesting-lgbtq-event

Australian Nazis have gotten in on it too:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...g-queen-story-time-event-20230504-p5d5jn.html

As have Canadian Nazis:
https://www.antihate.ca/neo_nazi_white_lives_matter_anti_lgbtq_protest_library


Don't you have to ask yourself, y'know, how did you get to this point? After all, you apparently don't consider yourself extreme right wing. And yet there are so damned many Nazis who keep turning up on your side (and I'm not merely calling them that: all of the above feature known members of neo-Nazi groups that show up waving Nazi flags and making Nazi salutes), and none of the other anti-drag protesters seem to mind. At some point you personally woke up and thought "this Youtube fascist makes some really good arguments". Isn't that a bit weird?

 

[saintrichie123]

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[Le Tissier's Laces]

You approvingly posted the videos of an out-and-out fascist on the subject. There isn't any great need to accuse anyone of extreme right wing ideology and bigotry, given that you've told on yourself here.

And here are some real-by-god Nazis who showed up recently to protest a Drag Queen Story Hour in New Hampshire, Sieg Heiling away:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/neo-nazis-disrupt-drag-story-hour-new-hampshire-rcna90259

And here are some Nazis waving the Nazi flag (and DeSantis 2024 flags for good measure), protesting Disney:
https://news.sky.com/story/absolute...-swastika-flags-outside-disney-world-12901495

And in April, a bunch of Nazis showed up to protest an event in Ohio:
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/neo-nazi-group-protests-columbus-223840382.html

And in Tennessee, Nazis made threats against a bar:
https://wpln.org/post/neo-nazis-thr...ookeville-bar-now-the-bar-is-facing-eviction/

Those same Nazis showed up in March at a different event (and threw a Molotov cocktail through the window of the place):
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/03/14/drag-story-hour-ohio-protest-neo-nazi/

And last year, Nazis showed up to a protest in Florida:
https://www.fox13news.com/news/demo...d-charity-event-that-included-drag-performers

And in Massachusetts:
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-new...rested-in-boston-after-protesting-lgbtq-event

Australian Nazis have gotten in on it too:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...g-queen-story-time-event-20230504-p5d5jn.html

As have Canadian Nazis:
https://www.antihate.ca/neo_nazi_white_lives_matter_anti_lgbtq_protest_library


Don't you have to ask yourself, y'know, how did you get to this point? After all, you apparently don't consider yourself extreme right wing. And yet there are so damned many Nazis who keep turning up on your side (and I'm not merely calling them that: all of the above feature known members of neo-Nazi groups that show up waving Nazi flags and making Nazi salutes), and none of the other anti-drag protesters seem to mind. At some point you personally woke up and thought "this Youtube fascist makes some really good arguments". Isn't that a bit weird?

Hmmm...dipping my toe in (probably foolishly). Much as I sometimes baulk a little at some of IOAG's posts on this matter, I don't think equating him with Nazis is either useful or fair. Of course the extreme right wing attach themselves to this element of the culture wars, but I also think that IOAG isn't of that ilk, and that some of the concerns he raises are perfectly fair, and should be addressed with sensible debate.

When I was in Italy recently, an unnamed member of the band I was with is unvaccinated - we were talking about how the label "anti-vax" is attached to people who didn't feel comfortable taking the Covid vaccine, and that with that come a host of unfair links with the more Lambert/Le Tissier crowd, by way of easy association. He isn't "anti-vax" at all (he's pro vaccination, just not this one), and thinks that the Le Tiss/Lambert crowd are as mad as the rest of a right-thinking population would. But he gets lumped in with them, because that's what we do these days. It's the same thing with IOAG - he's raising some valid points about how the trans position is communicated to children, but to then lazily lump him in with a bunch of Nazis is...well...you're brighter than that.

 

[Schad]

Hmmm...dipping my toe in (probably foolishly). Much as I sometimes baulk a little at some of IOAG's posts on this matter, I don't think equating him with Nazis is either useful or fair. Of course the extreme right wing attach themselves to this element of the culture wars, but I also think that IOAG isn't of that ilk, and that some of the concerns he raises are perfectly fair, and should be addressed with sensible debate.

When I was in Italy recently, an unnamed member of the band I was with is unvaccinated - we were talking about how the label "anti-vax" is attached to people who didn't feel comfortable taking the Covid vaccine, and that with that come a host of unfair associations with the more Lambert/Le Tessier crowd, by way of easy association. He isn't "anti-vax" at all (he's pro vaccination, just not this one), and thinks that the Le Tiss/Lambert crowd are as mad as the rest of a right-thinking population would. But he gets lumped in with them. It's the same thing with IOAG - he's raising some valid points about how the trans position is communicated to children, but to then lazily lump him in with a bunch of Nazis is...well...you're brighter than that.

IOAG himself linked a Youtube channel called History Debunked to support his position on trans rights. That Youtube channel features, among many other things, the host stating that fascism is an idea with a lot to recommend it, lauds the fascist government of Antonio Salazar in Portugal, and positively reviews such cultural touchstones as the Rivers of Blood speech and the infamous white nationalist novel Camp of the Saints. I don't know what's in IOAG's heart, but I would say that if you don't want people to think you're extreme right, not approvingly citing out-and-out fascists would be a good place to start.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

IOAG himself linked a Youtube channel called History Debunked to support his position on trans rights. That Youtube channel features, among many other things, the host stating that fascism is an idea with a lot to recommend it, lauds the fascist government of Antonio Salazar in Portugal, and positively reviews such cultural touchstones as the Rivers of Blood speech and the infamous white nationalist novel Camp of the Saints. I don't know what's in IOAG's heart, but I would say that if you don't want people to think you're extreme right, not approvingly citing out-and-out fascists would be a good place to start.

Yeah, I mean, I'd agree it's not going to be the best source material to use, but in any debate we also need to be certain we're playing the ball not the man, to use an over-used cliche.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Yeah, I mean, I'd agree it's not going to be the best source material to use, but in any debate we also need to be certain we're playing the ball not the man, to use an over-used cliche.

Franny Benali wasn't subject to such petty limitations....

 

[Schad]

Yeah, I mean, I'd agree it's not going to be the best source material to use, but in any debate we also need to be certain we're playing the ball not the man, to use an over-used cliche.

But that's the point. The explicit purpose of the idiotic trans panic is to create a cultural wedge issue that pushes people into the arms of the extreme right. Some of the architects have been gleefully up front about that. To create a situation where people -- who let's assume, are not normally predisposed to being extreme racists and bigots -- cite someone who is and then shrug that off as merely their "controversial opinions", as IOAG did. And to march shoulder-to-shoulder with actual Nazis in actual Nazi paraphernalia, as a lot of conservative protesters have in the US, and shrug because, well, they're on your side, after all.

 

[......loading......]

But that's the point. The explicit purpose of the idiotic trans panic is to create a cultural wedge issue that pushes people into the arms of the extreme right. Some of the architects have been gleefully up front about that. To create a situation where people -- who let's assume, are not normally predisposed to being extreme racists and bigots -- cite someone who is and then shrug that off as merely their "controversial opinions", as IOAG did. And to march shoulder-to-shoulder with actual Nazis in actual Nazi paraphernalia, as a lot of conservative protesters have in the US, and shrug because, well, they're on your side, after all.

This is one of those things where the left and right labels muddy more than they clear up. It is extremism of thought at both ends which is causing this- and both acting in ways people could easily call fascist.

The left needs to be stronger at dissociating from those loud voices that make threats when people transgress their perceived moral high ground. There is no moral high ground in the gender roles of children. We are too early into this and it feels a little too much like a fad. Ideas are dangerous. It was once okay to be a boyish girl who liked girls. Now that needs a label. Too many young people are transitioning and then transitioning back. All of this should be available for debate, but the right is empowered by the extreme left as the right appear to champion free speech. They have been put into a position where their normally insane point of view looks comfortable and sane and safe. Put there by the left.

I am open-minded and open-hearted too. This thing will work itself out over time. But if we tell people that men are women and women are men and people can be cats, it undermines everything socialists and ideological lefties are aiming for.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

This is one of those things where the left and right labels muddy more than they clear up. It is extremism of thought at both ends which is causing this- and both acting in ways people could easily call fascist.

The left needs to be stronger at dissociating from those loud voices that make threats when people transgress their perceived moral high ground. There is no moral high ground in the gender roles of children. We are too early into this and it feels a little too much like a fad. Ideas are dangerous. It was once okay to be a boyish girl who liked girls. Now that needs a label. Too many young people are transitioning and then transitioning back. All of this should be available for debate, but the right is empowered by the extreme left as the right appear to champion free speech. They have been put into a position where their normally insane point of view looks comfortable and sane and safe. Put there by the left.

I am open-minded and open-hearted too. This thing will work itself out over time. But if we tell people that men are women and women are men and people can be cats, it undermines everything socialists and ideological lefties are aiming for.

Very well put.

Labels are funny things. It’s like the adult ADHD thing. A diagnosis like that gives a reason for behaviour traits, but far too often now it’s jumped on as an *excuse* for behaviours - “oh, I can’t help it, I’m ADHD”. No, you have behaviour traits you have, because you are ADHD. But you take that knowledge and implement ways of managing those behaviours (because you’re an adult) to counteract those traits. It’s one example of how flinging labels around like confetti is deeply unhelpful.

Sorry, not a terribly well formulated thought, but a thought I believe all the same (as someone who could be labelled as having ADHD, by the way).

 

[Libby]

I don't believe bringing trans discussions into primary schools is appropriate. Nor do I believe that young children should be encouraged into puberty blockers etc at a young age. People change hugely during puberty and big life changing decisions shouldn't be happening before that, let alone encouraged.

My lad mentioned the other day that there's a boy in his class that wants be a girl and that he finds it weird. It's fine to think that way imo and I told him so as long as he's respectful towards him. I also think that's lots of these things are 'phases' which should be allowed to play out, and not a permanent life choice where drugs or other treatment is needed.

When I was a kid there were loads of young girls who went through a 'tomboy' stage. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and most grow out of it, these days girls like that will be told they have gender dysphoria or something else equally ridiculous to label a pre teen child.

I've nothing against the trans community and it's good they are receiving more rights and equality these days. However some of the rhetoric and pushes by extreme parts of society is outright dangerous imo such as the laws that the Scottish Farage tried to push through. On that as well I'd say that sort of lunacy has far more chance of pushing people against this than the 'far right'.


If that all makes me a fascist, then **** it, I'm a facist.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I don't believe bringing trans discussions into primary schools is appropriate. Nor do I believe that young children should be encouraged into puberty blockers etc at a young age. People change hugely during puberty and big life changing decisions shouldn't be happening before that, let alone encouraged.

My lad mentioned the other day that there's a boy in his class that wants be a girl and that he finds it weird. It's fine to think that way imo and I told him so as long as he's respectful towards him. I also think that's lots of these things are 'phases' which should be allowed to play out, and not a permanent life choice where drugs or other treatment is needed.

When I was a kid there were loads of young girls who went through a 'tomboy' stage. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and most grow out of it, these days girls like that will be told they have gender dysphoria or something else equally ridiculous to label a pre teen child.

I've nothing against the trans community and it's good they are receiving more rights and equality these days. However some of the rhetoric and pushes by extreme parts of society is outright dangerous imo such as the laws that the Scottish Farage tried to push through. On that as well I'd say that sort of lunacy has far more chance of pushing people against this than the 'far right'.


If that all makes me a fascist, then **** it, I'm a facist.

Yeah, that's where I am.