Off Topic Ukraine
- Thread starter andytoprankin
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Just a comparison to ponder on Toby. Didn't the RAF destroy 3 dams which supplied water to the Ruhr in 1942 and didn't they make a film about it called the dambusters, and don't England football fans sometimes sing about it now ? But of course that was different
Just a comparison to ponder on Toby. Didn't the RAF destroy 3 dams which supplied water to the Ruhr in 1942 and didn't they make a film about it called the dambusters, and don't England football fans sometimes sing about it now ? But of course that was different
One would have thought that over a period of 80 years we would all have become a bit more civilized.
Sorry Cologne, but I think that that's a gross false equivalence there. The Ruhr dams were assisting to power the Nazi war effort (allegedly) and was a "justified" target, however effective or horrific the result was.Just a comparison to ponder on Toby. Didn't the RAF destroy 3 dams which supplied water to the Ruhr in 1942 and didn't they make a film about it called the dambusters, and don't England football fans sometimes sing about it now ? But of course that was different
The destruction of the Kakhovska HPP seems more an act of gratuitous vandalism and murder: the dam and HPP were under russian control: another case of if we can't have it, neither can you. A flooded earth rather than a scorched earth policy on this occasion.
I cannot for the life of me understand why the Ukrainians would blow it up: they don't need the sympathy; they don't need the expense; they don't need the propaganda; and I'm pretty sure that they are not in the business of self inflicted wounds into the thousands of casualties and millions of $.
Yep, there are some nefarious characters on both sides, but this serves no purpose.
The idea that 80 years must equal progress is an illusion Frenchie. We may have 'moved on' in technical terms but not much else. Apparently wealth is more concentrated now than 80 years ago which doesn't really imply progress. It's also possible now to kill from a distance with drones and without any danger to the perpetrator - something which even the knightly order of the middle ages would probably have recoiled from. When it comes to dam busting it is, technically, a war crime but has been practiced for about the last 500 years of warfare - the Americans did it in Syria recently without much being said against it. The logic behind it being that it damages the ability of the enemy to wage war - the major doubt here being that it damages both sides equally and the Ukrainians had already threatened to damage the dam previously.
The North Crimean canal supplies about 80 % of their water Fez (Crimea) - of which only 18% is for drinking water, the rest is used for industry and agriculture - I would say,in those circumstances, that both sides had a motive for the act - but both were damaged by it. Some photographs of the site indicate that the dam already had structural problems which may have been made more critical by Ukrainian shelling. It could also be that the Russians aimed at a controlled explosion which went wrong - at any rate there is currently very little evidence which points one way or the other.
The Russian Army has started blowing up other dams in the Zaporizhzhia region too, proving that destroying the Kakhovka dam was part of a coordinated Russian action meant to hinder the Ukrainian counteroffensive. Dams blown up at Chornozemne, Peremozhne & Viazivka.
That being the case: Cowards. And it shows the "special military operation" for the sham that we knew it was from the get go. Time for Ukraine to take the gloves off. Can't have this.
I have seen no reports from any media source about the Russians blowing up other dams Frenchie though it may be par for the course. The Ukrainians blew up smaller dams earlier in this conflict to slow up the advance of Russian armoured vehicles, yet little was said about this at the time. At the moment both sides are blaming each other and the Western media is making up its own mind - Is this a little bit like the gas pipe which was ''definitely'' blown up by the Russians......but now, it appears, wasn't ?
Just a comparison to ponder on Toby. Didn't the RAF destroy 3 dams which supplied water to the Ruhr in 1942 and didn't they make a film about it called the dambusters, and don't England football fans sometimes sing about it now ? But of course that was different
Where have I ever defended actions of the RAF in WW2? This whataboutism is pathetic.
Ukrainians are the victims in this current war. They didn't blow up a dam to pollute their own land (the most fertile part of the country) and that they didn't control. The russians are currently shelling the rescue efforts and have done nothing to help the survivors, but you thought they were in Ukraine to help 'ethnic russians'? They're on 200k+ casualties right now, Putin doesn't care about his own people so why would he care about Ukrainians.
The dam they blew up at the start of the war was in marshlands. People were evacuated first, and slowing down the raping mudering russian army would have saved more lives than any lost in that scenario.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
There is no excuse for the behaviour of Putin and his cronies.
I have just taken more friends to the Holocaust museum at Oradour sur Glane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre
There are some terrible terrible parallells with the behaviour of Putin and his armies.
I will not apologize for the actions of his commanders in Ukraine.
The UN resolution of Feb 23 says it all
That Russia “immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine and called for a cessation of hostilities”.
The results were 141 Member States in favour and seven against - Belarus, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Eritrea, Mali, Nicaragua, Russia and Syria. (All corrupt regimes) .....
I have just taken more friends to the Holocaust museum at Oradour sur Glane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre
There are some terrible terrible parallells with the behaviour of Putin and his armies.
I will not apologize for the actions of his commanders in Ukraine.
The UN resolution of Feb 23 says it all
That Russia “immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine and called for a cessation of hostilities”.
The results were 141 Member States in favour and seven against - Belarus, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Eritrea, Mali, Nicaragua, Russia and Syria. (All corrupt regimes) .....
There is trouble between Putin and his forces and the private army, the Wagner group. It has been rumbling on for some time, but now seems to be coming to a head, with Prigozhin claiming his forces have been attacked by the Russian army. He is now taking his troops towards Moscow, where tanks are being brought in to the area around the Kremlin. It is too soon to get a clear picture of all the claims and counter-claims, but this could see the start of a civil war inside Russia. At least if they are fighting each other, it gives some breathing space to the Ukrainian forces.
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
All kicking off overnight eh.......... fingers crossed.........................................
Apparently they've negotiated the resignation of Shoigu and Gerasimov, a payout, immunity for Wagner troops, Wagner's withdrawal from Ukraine and lucrative deals in Africa where Wagner have been terrorising the locals.
Putin fled Moscow and he's not seen as the Golden leader he once was.
Can't wait for this disgusting war to be over. Ukraine will hopefully regain all their territory and finally join NATO, which is the only thing that will prevent Russia from regrouping and coming back for more. It'll take decades to rebuild and make their country safe again...
yorkshirehornet
Well-Known Member
I was in hospital yesterday waiting for a routine test and spent half an hour with a South African guy telling me about the corruption over there in the ANC...and telling me they are in deep with Putin at the top... kick backs etc etc..... . and how a Russian ship secretly arrived at a naval base a few weeks back and filled up with ????? via floodlights over night and then departed.... but a lot of locals saw it and filmed it on their phones . S Africa is a major arms manufacturer ............ANC playing a double game...and very worried abouy Putin being toppled.
Last edited: