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No manager bar Jol and Ramos has taken the UEFA Cup/EL or the conference league seriously. They got to the 1/4 finals but have either failed to get out of the group stages or gone out in the last 32 or 16 stage.

Pisses me off that we act like we are above winning them tbh ... we've won 2 League Titles and no European Cups /CL so God knows why we continually treat other trophies with contempt is a bit beyond me tbh
Our managers have a remit to achieve top four first and foremost, there is no pressure to win any silverware so there is no wonder they don`t take cups seriously. When Mourinho got close to a trophy, he was sacked to avoid paying him a bonus, so you can see where the owners priorities are.
 
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Any European competition needs to be taken seriously and we should be trying to finish as high as we can.Try telling Roma fans about the europa conference who like us, hadn’t won anything in ages and Jose is actually building up his reputation again off the back of winning it.

Or tell it to West Ham fans who look like they will survive and if they win this competition, they’ll have had a better season than us and playing in a higher European competition than us.

We haven’t earnt the right to be snooty about any competitions.

Plus with the new champions league format coming in, coefficient can be a way in so need to try and keep some coefficient points going.

i like European footy…it’s a different game and I enjoy being part of it. I don’t like entering completions just because though…I like us to try and win them and I don’t think we do due to arrogance or just being ****…I’m not sure.

However unlike Roma and West Ham this season…we adopt put our eggs into that basket and our bit part players can never get us to the business end of a third grade tournament. So we can’t manage it right…so we don’t have the same energy as clubs who want to win the trophy…we don’t take our fans on a great journey in Europe enough.

So maybe next season we give it a miss to save us all the frustration and just try to work on our domestic football because that’s turned to **** as well and we fans can see it getting worse before it gets better.
 
I'd agree if it wasn't for the fact that we have 4 years of bad habits and atrocious tactics to exorcise from the players' muscle memory. Mason has spoken about this a few times, expressing frustration that the squad is so far 'gone' tactically it defaults to sitting deeper and deeper, even when there is no need to. Stellini learned the hard way that there is no quick fix to such a long-standing problem. He tried to change things up tactically and we got torn to shreds.

The new manager will need as much time as possible on the training ground with this lot. Two fixtures a week and loads of travelling just isn't conducive to getting new ideas across.

It depends who “this lot” involves.

If we’re hiring a new manager to yet again work with the majority of these players for next season then we might as well pack up now.

If the club is finally going to listen to its fans and bin a large number of deadwood then the promotion of youth alongside new signings could do with the extra competition to get more experience together.

We could be on the verge of losing Mundle as it is, if we yet again don’t provide a route to the first team next season then there’s the possibility of even more following in the footsteps of Madueke and Edwards.
 
Isn't the problem actually moving on players? The clubs above don't want them and those below can't afford the wages. Once again Spurs position on the edge of the top is the problem.

Cancel more contracts like Aurier and Doherty. A lot of the deadwood have deals expiring in a year or two.

We need to be more threatening too, banish players to the reserves (now ideally) and tell them under no circumstance will they be registered for the first team next season. That might just make a few players and agents rethink a move and be more open to reducing financial expectations.

Problem for us is that there’s already rumours Dier has signed/ will sign a new deal. If I were still a betting man I’d put money on Sessegnon being offered one as well.
 
Cancel more contracts like Aurier and Doherty. A lot of the deadwood have deals expiring in a year or two.

We need to be more threatening too, banish players to the reserves (now ideally) and tell them under no circumstance will they be registered for the first team next season. That might just make a few players and agents rethink a move and be more open to reducing financial expectations.

Problem for us is that there’s already rumours Dier has signed/ will sign a new deal. If I were still a betting man I’d put money on Sessegnon being offered one as well.
The board look at players as financial assets and are therefore keen (as they see it) to get them on contracts to protect their investment. This as we know backfires when you end up with an Ndombele on huge wages and going nowhere except on loan to protect his own financial interests. Only stability of management will overcome this situation and that will take time to work through. We need to get off of this celebrity management kick and prioritise stability above all. All easier said than done of course. We didn't see Pochettino coming and we probably won't see the next one coming either but the board could have behaved differently and Poch might still be here. Will they learn from that situation?
 
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The board look at players as financial assets and are therefore keen (as they see it) to get them on contracts to protect their investment. This as we know backfires when you end up with an Ndombele on huge wages and going nowhere except on loan to protect his own financial interests. Only stability of management will overcome this situation and that will take time to work through. We need to get off of this celebrity management kick and prioritise stability above all. All easier said than done of course. We didn't see Pochettino coming and we probably won't see the next one coming either but the board could have behaved differently and Poch might still be here. Will they learn from that situation?

I hope we learn because otherwise our spiral will just continue.

A new Pochettino would be great, because the original was a ruthless bastard when he first came in. I think about 5 or 6 senior players were more or less expelled from the XI within his first 2 or 3 months at the club and they’d left by the time the following season started along with some others. That’s practically exactly what we need from our new manager.
 
During the Klopp era, the Poool have :

1. PL

although not being PL#2 in terms of revenue,
they have finished no lower than 2nd on three
occasions, with pts totals > 90, winning the PL once.

2. CL

reached the CL final 3 times. That is a rate that
no PL era manager is even close to (you have
to go back to the halcyon era of pre-Heysel to
have comparative managers) .


On the above basis I would contend that this
is highly unlikely to be pure chance.
I don't think you are right. Firstly Liverpool have been PL #2 on revenue at least once and their average finish under Klopp is very close to their average revenue ranking.
Cups are harder to analyse because they depend so much on the draw. In the knockout stages with Liverpool, Klopp has generally beaten teams with lower revenue (winning 8 out of 9 ties) but has lost 4 out of 7 matches against teams with higher revenue. That doesn't look in the least bit unusual to me.
 
I hope we learn because otherwise our spiral will just continue.

A new Pochettino would be great, because the original was a ruthless bastard when he first came in. I think about 5 or 6 senior players were more or less expelled from the XI within his first 2 or 3 months at the club and they’d left by the time the following season started along with some others. That’s practically exactly what we need from our new manager.
But back then they were easier to sell because we were not signing players with high fees and wages. As far as I can see the club have done a decent job of minimising the financial consequences of poor transfer decisions.
 
I don't think you are right. Firstly Liverpool have been PL #2 on revenue at least once and their average finish under Klopp is very close to their average revenue ranking.
Cups are harder to analyse because they depend so much on the draw. In the knockout stages with Liverpool, Klopp has generally beaten teams with lower revenue (winning 8 out of 9 ties) but has lost 4 out of 7 matches against teams with higher revenue. That doesn't look in the least bit unusual to me.

Presumably you are putting City as #1 in revenue (at least in spend) as guadiola is par for the course.

United are definitely higher than Liverpool.

Arguably Chelsea going by the City definition also are higher than Liverpool.

I make Pool 4th for most of that so by definition finishing way above par for the course
 
But back then they were easier to sell because we were not signing players with high fees and wages. As far as I can see the club have done a decent job of minimising the financial consequences of poor transfer decisions.

They were also easier to sell because a decent portion were good players and many were proven in the Premier League. Some just didn’t fit Pochettino’s system and others caused one or two issues amongst the youth, whom Pochettino sided with.

You may call it a decent job of minimising the consequences of poor transfers, I’d say it’s suffering with the consequences of poor transfers as well as decision making with existing players.
 
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Isn't the problem actually moving on players? The clubs above don't want them and those below can't afford the wages. Once again Spurs position on the edge of the top is the problem.

As I have said before, this is an issue with the
PL and not any particular club. The only way
that 'wage poisoning' can be broken is if the
players themselves are collectively humble in
their wages mindset.
 
Presumably you are putting City as #1 in revenue (at least in spend) as guadiola is par for the course.

United are definitely higher than Liverpool.

Arguably Chelsea going by the City definition also are higher than Liverpool.

I make Pool 4th for most of that so by definition finishing way above par for the course
I am using the Deloitte money league rankings. Liverpool are number 3.5 on that on average over the Klopp years (but have been getting gradually higher and are above Man U currently). Including this year their average finishing position under Klopp is 3.7.
 
I don't think you are right. Firstly Liverpool have been PL #2 on revenue at least once and their average finish under Klopp is very close to their average revenue ranking.

What years in the Klopp era have the Poool been #2 ??


"Cups are harder to analyse because they depend so much on the draw.
In the knockout stages with Liverpool, Klopp has generally beaten teams with lower revenue
(winning 8 out of 9 ties) but has lost 4 out of 7 matches against teams with higher revenue.
That doesn't look in the least bit unusual to me."

There comes a point at which the compounding of
luck (probabilities) gives a value so low that tis
either a "black swan" event, or there is a systematic
cause for what is happening.

I contend that we are observing the latter, and not the former.
 
So before the time the Poool become #2 (ostensibly
so by incremental annual performance) , 2 of the 3
PL/CL performances I stated, had already occurred.
That's true but I think that is equally likely to be a consequence of a black swan event in the transfer market (where each of Mane, Salah, Van Dyck, Robertson and Allison made big differences) as anything to do with Klopp's coaching.
 
I am using the Deloitte money league rankings. Liverpool are number 3.5 on that on average over the Klopp years (but have been getting gradually higher and are above Man U currently). Including this year their average finishing position under Klopp is 3.7.

In that case where does City rank then if you want to use the same metric. Surely that makes Pep a god (i can't imagine City are that high)