71% in 17mins

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HamburgSpur

Member
Jul 7, 2011
58
0
8
Hamburg
After watching yesterday’s game I had the same thought that I have had in recent weeks … concentration and tactics.

The stat that I refer to above is that this season 71% approx of the goals we have conceded (5 from 7) have occurred within a specific 17 minute period of each game, namely from the 45th to 62nd minute. This stat drops to 53% if I remove the awful showings against the Manchester Clubs (when we had a very shaky central midfield), but I want to concentrate on the 71% (despite neither stat being very good).

The breakdown of these goals can be seen below; where in each case we were winning the game:
  • Fulham 0-2 -> 1-2
  • QPR 2-0 -> 2-1
  • Newcastle 0-1-> 1-1
  • Arsenal 0-1 -> 1-1
  • Wigan 0-2 -> 1-2

It is testament to the squad and players that we have that we went on to win all of these games save the Newcastle one; however my point is that each of the above games we got ourselves into trouble in this specific period.

Half-time team talks generally mean that a side will come out fired up at the start of the second half and adapt their playing style and tactics based on what has worked for them and what their opponents did that worked for them, but my concern is that from the above it seems we are not as good as adapting.

When a side is one or two up at the break you often hear it said that “the next goal will be crucial” and more often than not this is against us as it. Without a clean sheet in 6, this apparent lack of tactical nouse, concentration or inflexibility will eventually cost us; and should we miss the top 4, we will point to these results as the ones that did the damage (as we saw last year), and it’s a killer to our goal difference.
 
Great article. It's strange because it used to be that we'd start poorly and then have to step our game up second half. Last season we must have set some kind of record for points gained after conceding the first goal.

If we're to maintain our form we need to start controlling the game for the full 90, perhaps after a good first half it might be a good idea to bring Sandro on for the full second half to help counter the opposition coming out more attacking as they have nothing to lose.
 
I have been noticing this too, but i don't think its too much of a problem tbh.
We do well in the 1st half, so at half time all i can imagine being said is "same again please lads".
The other team, having been 2nd best, have to be proactive and change their play. So they come out 2nd half with a slightly adapted tactics. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Typically, and you touched on this also, we then respond again to these altered tactics and go on to win anyway. Admittedly we didn't at Toon and we didn't really counter Fulham too well. But those aren't exactly gimme fixtures!

We're not man city, so we're not gonna steamroller everyone in our way like they seem to do 3 out of 4 weeks. Win our game in hand though and we're virtually matching utd. Who would've thought?
 
also, i don't think you can expect to dominate 90mins against anyone, especially away from home. We've played 6 away games and 4 home. Some teams have played 6 home and 5 away.
Take that into consideration and we are in a VERY good position. Certainly better than i'd hoped before the season started.
 
Bring on a big flat bloke at HT, and stick him on the goal-line, replace with JD(not on the goal-line!) after 63 mins when danger period has passed. :smiley:
 
While the stat shows we do tend to concede goals in a certain period, it's fair to say we create enough chances (and actually score most of them for a change!) to be able to discount the conceded goal(s). I'm not saying the "we'll score one more than you" philosophy is the greatest, however while we're winning and playing great football (and even when we're not at our best we're still grinding out results, which "is a sign of a good team" according to the guys on MOTD) the stats don't bother me too much in all fairness.

HamburgSpur said:
Without a clean sheet in 6, this apparent lack of tactical nouse, concentration or inflexibility will eventually cost us
Click to expand...

I think that's just taking a pessimistic view on things there mate. We may well improve on that stat and start winning/ drawing games without conceding. Excluding the Chelsea game which will be tough but still win-able if we play to our best (our recent record against them at the lane proves it too), up to and inlcuding the 14th January which is Wolves at home, we have a long run of games in which we could/ should take a lot of points from.

Interesting article though mate, <ok>
 
Good article. Clean sheets are not, and hardly ever were, a Spurs speciality. We are still weak in the areas you describe. We have improved vastly from the old, easy to roll over team, that we used to be. We are much more resilient, now. However, we still seem to lack that killer - go for the jugular, instinct that separates the great teams from the merely good. Teams DO still try to bully us - we have to be strong enough to show them that that's not gonna work, anymore.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
The obvious common denominator there is that each opposition team were chasing the game. I think we can assume that each were sent out with instructions to chase the game whereas Spurs were no doubt told to stand firm for the next 15-20 mins and weather the storm. 3/5 teams were at home, one was Arsenal, who have the quality to put you under pressure for a sustained period and the other (QPR) are never going to be shrinking violets under Warnock.

I don't think your stat proves much. It perhaps shows some vulnerability under pressure given that each of these teams pulled a goal back in that period just after half time, but in three of those games you had a 2-0 cushion anyway and were able to go on and win the game.
Click to expand...

It's worse than that, Luke. We seem to invite the pressure. As I've just said, we must learn to put the opposition to the sword, once we have the advantage - not invite them to snatch it back from us.
 
Just observations made as a part of this year's rollercoaster ride, that being a Spurs supporter is.

I'm not being pessimistic, as overall how the lads have performed since the opening two games, our form, league position and ability to not capitulate under pressure make me proud; especially away from home. I'm just pointing to something that may be nothing more than coincidence, but is something that can be worked on.

Yes in all of the above cases we were always in winning positions (a great thing in and of itself) and therefore the onus is on the oppo to chase, but that is exactly the problem to my mind. There could be more thinking as regards methods to blunt this 15 mins knowing they will come, and to this end I think that "same again please lads" isn't the kind of talk that is required.

It's the little things that can make all the difference and regardless of form we should never stop looking to improve.
 
If we're to maintain our form we need to start controlling the game for the full 90, perhaps after a good first half it might be a good idea to bring Sandro on for the full second half to help counter the opposition coming out more attacking as they have nothing to lose.[/QUOTE]

I too said that Sandro should have come on at half time, but when he did come on didnt seem to work with Parker, they were both marking the same player at times, leaving huge spaces in the mid field, Sandro needs more game time not the player he was last season yet
 
Spurfectionist is spot on, in my opinion.
Add in a little complacency, as some of our first half performances have been so easy and I think that the stat's been explained.

Interesting article though, HamburgSpur.
Well noticed. <ok>
 
Thanks PNP :)


I'm not sure a proactive response to a good first half is the way to go. Someone suggested bringing on Sandro at half time. If we are dominating a team i don't think that is the way to go. I haven't got facts or figures but i would guess from my experiences that Spurs success in sitting and protecting a lead are not very good!
I'm sure 'Arry doesn't just say "same again lads". That was me just simplifying it. I'm sure he doesn't go in and go "great 1st half guys, we're 2 up away from home against a decent team. Lets change it up a bit just in case!" :D
You rarely see any team change it up at half time after a good 1st half. There is a reason for this. If you 2nd guess what the oppo is gonna do and get it wrong then you are going to get flamed for cocking it up when there was no need (Tinkerman).

I wouldn't be surprised to see similar stats if you use other teams that go in 1-0 or 2-0 up at half time.
 
Two things we can really look as positives from this season.
A.We are taking our chances very well,unlike last season when we couldn't hit a barndoor in the last half of the season.
B.Having a GK who enstills trust in his defenders(yesterday i think Fulham put more than 40 crosses into the box(who thinks with Gomes in goal we would have only let 1 goal in?).
Also i must agree that we need to use Sandro alot more,to give him playing time,help out in those 17mins after the break and to keep him at the club.
 
Fair comments, but as has been said when a team is behind, they're going to chase the game. we line up with a very open team, annd so give lots of chances but score lots of goals too. The last three goals against us have been setpieces (4 including Europa, I think)

Our team has too many small players to cope well with set pieces - a key reason to play Sandro for me, but I accept that Lennon has justified his inclusion.
 
Interesting stat. Here's another one: Spurs are scoring 50% goals/game than last year, so far. (2.1:1.4). Goals against have gone up as well, from 1.2 to 1.5. The problem does look psychological: Spurs come out playing beautifully, the other team gets good and steamed at halftime, and between that and the knowledge they have a lead to defend, they stop playing beautifully. It happens all the time, it seems to me, in various sports. I knew I used to always pretend I was losing when I was winning, just to avoid it. So my solution would be to say: Imagine you're a goal down...
 
Good article. <ok>

I have been a tad concerned with our inability to cope with sustained pressure. Don't get me wrong- we've improved drastically in all areas. The issue is that this year we have the tools to deal with sustained pressure (namely: Ledley, Parker, an improved Kaboul, Friedel and Sandro) to an extent that simply didn't exist last season. Yet-as the OP quite correctly points out- that 71% period of pressure inevitably leads to the opposition scoring.

Having said all that, no-one besides Citeh seems to be able to cope with pressure any more. If you'd taken Chelsea or Arsenal and put them in front of the onslaught we faced most of yesterday, they'd have been trailing by full time and Terry's face would've embraced the turf once more.

I think that the EPL in general is seeing a shift towards more open, flowing and 'gung-ho' style football. Great for the neutral, headache for the home fan. The good thing is we're bloody good at gung-ho football when we put our minds to it!
 
The best way to not be under pressure, is to retain possession of the ball - something we have been poor at, especially yesterday. The opposition task of putting you under pressure becomes far more difficult if they can't get the ball. Just ask any of Barca's opponents!
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
Interesting stat. Here's another one: Spurs are scoring 50% goals/game than last year, so far. (2.1:1.4). Goals against have gone up as well, from 1.2 to 1.5. The problem does look psychological: Spurs come out playing beautifully, the other team gets good and steamed at halftime, and between that and the knowledge they have a lead to defend, they stop playing beautifully. It happens all the time, it seems to me, in various sports. I knew I used to always pretend I was losing when I was winning, just to avoid it. So my solution would be to say: Imagine you're a goal down...
Click to expand...

Fair stat, but if you do discount the Manchester games, where we were a shadow of the side we are today, it paints a different statistic. 20 goals in 8 games (2.5) for and 7 goals in 8 games (0.875) against.

Of course one could obviously do that some of our fixtures last season and change the statistic. But I think we need to write off the first two games as two shambolic performances from a side who didn't know how to do anything except take the ball from the back of their own net.

I understand the OP's concern, and I knew that Fulham were going to score the 3rd goal. Its typical Spurs. An easy win is very rare for Tottenham unfortunately. We do need to learn to finish teams off completely, or defend as a unit and keep the ball away from our goal.

Anyway, that being said, we got 3 hard earned points against Fulham so I am happy with that :)
 
Strangely enough another stat is the fact that we have scored 5 goals between the 65th and 70th mins also 10 goals after the 65min.Thus almost a quarter of our goals have come in the 5mins after the 17min bad patch and almost half our goals after the aforementioned time.So in fact we have scored more in the 2nd half (11) than the 1st (10).
Stats can sometimes be very confussing and not show the whole picture,all i know is,is that we seem to have a better team spirit and seem to be able to take alot more pressure than we have in a very long time.Long may it continue.
 
In yesterdays game I lost count of back passes to Brad who just hoofed the ball out to Fulhams midfield which just invited more pressure onto the defence. Sometimes we need to clear the defence and let midfield and the strikers take the pressure.
 
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