Drop the a out of Sunak and we get Sunk. Can but hope.
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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The problem for the Conservatives is that Sunak is a bland technocrat, the sort of person who you'd want as leader if you were running on a platform of...I don't know, whatever it is a normal party would have accomplished in 10 years in power. He's exactly the wrong sort of candidate if you are, by necessity, aiming to run on fear and stupid cultural panics, as the Tories were shaping to do until the ceiling caved in.
Johnson went from being an electoral asset to a liability. Truss was a liability from day one. Sunak currently looks like an asset, certainly in contrast to those two. For that reason, Conservative MPs will probably rally behind him, if they haven’t completely lost the capacity for loyalty. However, it’s the same old Tory Party, representing the same old vested interests, driven by the same libertarian free market agenda that’s been widening the gap between rich and poor for decades, not just in the U.K. but everywhere.
A fascinating thread, about how a single Soviet naval officer actually saved the entire planet 60 years ago yesterday. The Soviet submarine B59 was being hunted and depthcharged in the Atlantic by US Navy aircraft carrier USS Randolph and 11 destroyers. The Russians were unable to communicate with Moscow, and the Americans were unaware that B59 carried the T5 nuclear torpedo. They tried to force the sub to surface with depth charges, and the Soviet officers thought that war must have broken out. Two of the 3 in command wanted to deploy the nuclear torpedo to annihilate the US aircraft carrier, but the third, Vasily Arkhipov, refused. All 3 needed to consent to an action which would have certainly triggered a nuclear holocaust which would have destroyed most life in earth. The episode has been described as the most dangerous moment in human history.
Read the full story here:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1585524746799796224.html
Read the full story here:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1585524746799796224.html
Yes, but was he RalphOut or RalphIn?
As you say, a fascinating account but it doesn't explain why the Americans felt the need to force the sub to the surface. Unless it was in American waters it would seem that it was raw aggression as the article suggests. I find that quite incredible that while negotiations to avert nuclear war were ongoing a US navy commander ( or whoever it was) could have made them irrelevant off his own back.
Look at the date. This was at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The depth charges were being used basically as a means of communication: they weren't particularly large, and were unlikely to cause damage, but they had identified the sub appearing to be running the blockade, and had orders to not let anything run the blockade. The Soviets had orders to fire if the Americans used depth charges, because no one really considered that the Americans would use depth charges without the intent to do damage, and they thought a war might already be underway.
For that reason, one of the lasting consequences of the Cuban Missile Crisis was the establishment of the permanent line of communication between the leaders of the US and Soviet Union, because getting your wires crossed and starting a nuclear holocaust is just a bad deal all around.
Yep I've never felt so reassured in recent years knowing that Putin, Trump and Bonko would make the decision on our behalf.
Interesting (if a little depressing) discussion these evening with my neighbours (both pensioners 70+)
They both absolutely hated BJ, so I accept them for that. However talking to them about Rishi is very interesting …. A few points -
1. Give him a chance. He’s made money, worked in the stick market, so he knows how to get things back working properly.
2. A few strange appointments in the cabinet, but let’s just wait and see
3. Sue- Ellen appointment - will cause problems and internal fighting, but give her another chance.
4. ERG? Who are they? Don’t remember hearing much about them …..
5. We need to do something about the lazy buggers on benefits …. I worked for x years and never needed them …..
6. The NHS is going to HAVE to go to some low- level insurance based system (this one was a big worry for mr to hear)
7. God forbid Labour get in at the next election because they always overspend and plunge the country into debt. The unions run them (lots of examples from the 70s), they’re full of anti- semitism (this is from one who’s full on about all the refugees are radicalised and hate the English) and they bankrupted us last time (example of the mythical note about there being no money left the last time Labour left no 10), unbelievably high tax rates (“I had to go abroad last time because of tax” - they only remember the 70s not the Blair/Brown years. When reminded of those years, I got “well Blair was really a Tory wasn’t he?”
8. All the crap rolled out by the right wing media (except the BBC - SO left wing ….”
So I asked them were they comfortable with everything which had gone on in the last few years and who they’d vote for …. “Oh no - it’s been dreadful. Shelves are empty, food is expensive, can’t afford a holiday, my pension and savings have gone down massively as they’re all market based ….. But I’m sure it’ll get better in the next 2 years”
“I’ll be voting conservative again because I don’t want Labour to get in and Lib Dem is a wasted vote” (Romsey is very close to being a LD seat ….)
I absolutely ****ing despair …. I tried arguing with actual statistics about the levels of borrowing this mob have got us into compared to the last Labour government …. Fell on deaf ears …. Then i was called (admittedly in a jokey way) a communist for my views …..
I told them that if the Tories get in at the next election, I’m going to rent my house out to a family of refugees and take my motorhome across to Schengen for 3 months, then move on to the Croatian area for another 3 months, then back to Schengen until this stupid country wakes up and gets rid of these upper class twits who “rule” us ….
That went down well
They both absolutely hated BJ, so I accept them for that. However talking to them about Rishi is very interesting …. A few points -
1. Give him a chance. He’s made money, worked in the stick market, so he knows how to get things back working properly.
2. A few strange appointments in the cabinet, but let’s just wait and see
3. Sue- Ellen appointment - will cause problems and internal fighting, but give her another chance.
4. ERG? Who are they? Don’t remember hearing much about them …..
5. We need to do something about the lazy buggers on benefits …. I worked for x years and never needed them …..
6. The NHS is going to HAVE to go to some low- level insurance based system (this one was a big worry for mr to hear)
7. God forbid Labour get in at the next election because they always overspend and plunge the country into debt. The unions run them (lots of examples from the 70s), they’re full of anti- semitism (this is from one who’s full on about all the refugees are radicalised and hate the English) and they bankrupted us last time (example of the mythical note about there being no money left the last time Labour left no 10), unbelievably high tax rates (“I had to go abroad last time because of tax” - they only remember the 70s not the Blair/Brown years. When reminded of those years, I got “well Blair was really a Tory wasn’t he?”
8. All the crap rolled out by the right wing media (except the BBC - SO left wing ….”
So I asked them were they comfortable with everything which had gone on in the last few years and who they’d vote for …. “Oh no - it’s been dreadful. Shelves are empty, food is expensive, can’t afford a holiday, my pension and savings have gone down massively as they’re all market based ….. But I’m sure it’ll get better in the next 2 years”
“I’ll be voting conservative again because I don’t want Labour to get in and Lib Dem is a wasted vote” (Romsey is very close to being a LD seat ….)
I absolutely ****ing despair …. I tried arguing with actual statistics about the levels of borrowing this mob have got us into compared to the last Labour government …. Fell on deaf ears …. Then i was called (admittedly in a jokey way) a communist for my views …..
I told them that if the Tories get in at the next election, I’m going to rent my house out to a family of refugees and take my motorhome across to Schengen for 3 months, then move on to the Croatian area for another 3 months, then back to Schengen until this stupid country wakes up and gets rid of these upper class twits who “rule” us ….
That went down well
So many people getting fooled again.Interesting (if a little depressing) discussion these evening with my neighbours (both pensioners 70+)
They both absolutely hated BJ, so I accept them for that. However talking to them about Rishi is very interesting …. A few points -
1. Give him a chance. He’s made money, worked in the stick market, so he knows how to get things back working properly.
2. A few strange appointments in the cabinet, but let’s just wait and see
3. Sue- Ellen appointment - will cause problems and internal fighting, but give her another chance.
4. ERG? Who are they? Don’t remember hearing much about them …..
5. We need to do something about the lazy buggers on benefits …. I worked for x years and never needed them …..
6. The NHS is going to HAVE to go to some low- level insurance based system (this one was a big worry for mr to hear)
7. God forbid Labour get in at the next election because they always overspend and plunge the country into debt. The unions run them (lots of examples from the 70s), they’re full of anti- semitism (this is from one who’s full on about all the refugees are radicalised and hate the English) and they bankrupted us last time (example of the mythical note about there being no money left the last time Labour left no 10), unbelievably high tax rates (“I had to go abroad last time because of tax” - they only remember the 70s not the Blair/Brown years. When reminded of those years, I got “well Blair was really a Tory wasn’t he?”
8. All the crap rolled out by the right wing media (except the BBC - SO left wing ….”
So I asked them were they comfortable with everything which had gone on in the last few years and who they’d vote for …. “Oh no - it’s been dreadful. Shelves are empty, food is expensive, can’t afford a holiday, my pension and savings have gone down massively as they’re all market based ….. But I’m sure it’ll get better in the next 2 years”
“I’ll be voting conservative again because I don’t want Labour to get in and Lib Dem is a wasted vote” (Romsey is very close to being a LD seat ….)
I absolutely ****ing despair …. I tried arguing with actual statistics about the levels of borrowing this mob have got us into compared to the last Labour government …. Fell on deaf ears …. Then i was called (admittedly in a jokey way) a communist for my views …..
I told them that if the Tories get in at the next election, I’m going to rent my house out to a family of refugees and take my motorhome across to Schengen for 3 months, then move on to the Croatian area for another 3 months, then back to Schengen until this stupid country wakes up and gets rid of these upper class twits who “rule” us ….
That went down well
Interesting (if a little depressing) discussion these evening with my neighbours (both pensioners 70+)
They both absolutely hated BJ, so I accept them for that. However talking to them about Rishi is very interesting …. A few points -
1. Give him a chance. He’s made money, worked in the stick market, so he knows how to get things back working properly.
2. A few strange appointments in the cabinet, but let’s just wait and see
3. Sue- Ellen appointment - will cause problems and internal fighting, but give her another chance.
4. ERG? Who are they? Don’t remember hearing much about them …..
5. We need to do something about the lazy buggers on benefits …. I worked for x years and never needed them …..
6. The NHS is going to HAVE to go to some low- level insurance based system (this one was a big worry for mr to hear)
7. God forbid Labour get in at the next election because they always overspend and plunge the country into debt. The unions run them (lots of examples from the 70s), they’re full of anti- semitism (this is from one who’s full on about all the refugees are radicalised and hate the English) and they bankrupted us last time (example of the mythical note about there being no money left the last time Labour left no 10), unbelievably high tax rates (“I had to go abroad last time because of tax” - they only remember the 70s not the Blair/Brown years. When reminded of those years, I got “well Blair was really a Tory wasn’t he?”
8. All the crap rolled out by the right wing media (except the BBC - SO left wing ….”
So I asked them were they comfortable with everything which had gone on in the last few years and who they’d vote for …. “Oh no - it’s been dreadful. Shelves are empty, food is expensive, can’t afford a holiday, my pension and savings have gone down massively as they’re all market based ….. But I’m sure it’ll get better in the next 2 years”
“I’ll be voting conservative again because I don’t want Labour to get in and Lib Dem is a wasted vote” (Romsey is very close to being a LD seat ….)
I absolutely ****ing despair …. I tried arguing with actual statistics about the levels of borrowing this mob have got us into compared to the last Labour government …. Fell on deaf ears …. Then i was called (admittedly in a jokey way) a communist for my views …..
I told them that if the Tories get in at the next election, I’m going to rent my house out to a family of refugees and take my motorhome across to Schengen for 3 months, then move on to the Croatian area for another 3 months, then back to Schengen until this stupid country wakes up and gets rid of these upper class twits who “rule” us ….
That went down well
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This is why it happens. Like having people like Julia Hartley-Brewer on Question Time to balance out the sensible people, but your neighbours will believe her every time. That lecture from Emily Maitlis where she said the BBC always had to find an apparent balance even when the consensus was overwhelmingly one way. The effect is to validate long-held prejudice which should no longer exist in the 21st century, such as mistrust of what 99.99999999% of scientists say on any given subject, just because paid lobbyists and grifters say the opposite.
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garysfc
Well-Known Member
And on the topic of Julia Hartley-Brewer, this gem from BBCQT
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The very epitome of grift. Bought and paid for. **** “free speech”, she shouldn’t be allowed any platform whatsoever, the woman is a danger to the planet spouting ****.
Not sure that’s fair. Why would someone worth £800m work at all? Because life doesn’t work like that.