Our loan players

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FellTop

FellTop

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2020
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I am wondering if we have made good use of loans this season? If I am honest I am not particulalry impressed!

I am not including Michut as we seem set to buy him next summer, so am assuming that is just about staying in FFP.

Simms and Diallo I am not yet sold on. I know Simms has a couple of goals, but I think his overall game has been not the type we needed to bring in. Diallo I just am not seeing where he brings qualities we dont already have. With these two I wonder if we have got it a bit wrong on the recruitment front? Might we have identified different types of players? Would it be a bad move to send either back in Jan and go for a different type of player?

A debate to while away a Monday night...
 
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It's an interesting one.

I don't think Simms can play up front on his own. He makes some clever runs, but looks to me like he needs someone near him to do the leg work that allow him space. It's hard to judge as his poorly toe means we probably won't see him till after the world cup break

Diallo is difficult as I believe he was brought in to play off Stewart as part of a front 3 and due to injury that hasn't happened.

I'm convinced a front 3 is the way forward for us, that to me if all for would be Stewart at the head and Clarke and A N Other just behind him.

Do Diallo and Simms fit in that?
 
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I don't rate Simms personally, I think he will do alright playing with Stewart as he then isn't as important! I have said a few times I don't think he has it about him to be the striker we rely on.

Not seen much to be impressed with about Diallo either as others said no better than our lads. TM reckons you can see why he is at man utd and why they paid so much for him, can only assume that's from training.
 
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I'm not convinced by Simms, he seems to lack football intelligence and has the first touch of a baby elephant. We only had one striker and another was desperately needed, with his pedigree and form from last season, he's probably about as good as could be expected for a newly promoted club. He'll do a job if he's back up for Stewart, I'm not keen on him being a first team player with Stewart.

I seen nothing in Diallo at Rangers and have yet to see any real quality from him for us.

Speakman did say that the club never wanted to use the full loan allocation and that we prefer to buy young and bring them on instead of bringing in other clubs youth players.
 
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hmm, strange replies about diallo...

what i saw was a lad who was finding good space in the pockets and making some good runs, i just don't think our current style suits him very well...he seems the type that would do well in a side where he could get the ball and pass, get the ball and pass, just keep the ball moving in/out all the time.

simms is a strange one, started 'on fire' then when on his own he seemed to develop the gentle touch of a windy pick and struggled to break with the ball, i think we have all had that kind of injury where every time we try to push off to run it knacks but those usually clear up in a week or two, maybe this is something worse or maybe he does not fancy leading the line for us...it's a double shame as broadhead would have thrived at the minute i feel.

no comment on michut yet as not seen enough of the lad, ba and jewi have basically walked into the team and done well so i see no reason why the rest should struggle.
 
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samwise_new said:
hmm, strange replies about diallo...

what i saw was a lad who was finding good space in the pockets and making some good runs, i just don't think our current style suits him very well...he seems the type that would do well in a side where he could get the ball and pass, get the ball and pass, just keep the ball moving in/out all the time.

simms is a strange one, started 'on fire' then when on his own he seemed to develop the gentle touch of a windy pick and struggled to break with the ball, i think we have all had that kind of injury where every time we try to push off to run it knacks but those usually clear up in a week or two, maybe this is something worse or maybe he does not fancy leading the line for us...it's a double shame as broadhead would have thrived at the minute i feel.

no comment on michut yet as not seen enough of the lad, ba and jewi have basically walked into the team and done well so i see no reason why the rest should struggle.
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I think with Diallo he has a brilliant first touch, but he doesnt look like a player who knoes what he is going to do when on the ball. I really hope they all have a great season with us but right now I dont think he deserves a place in the first 11, which I would be the recruitment team assumed he would when signing him. I also reckon Man Utd are seeing any future sale price dwindling whilst he doesnt do much at our place. It all just seems like a poor fit at this stage, and with 11 games until the window opens I wonder if Sunderland or Man Utd are thinking about ending the deal then? Like I say, I hope he proves me wrong.

I know what you mean re Ba and Bennette doing well. I still look at both and think they have a lot of learning to do. I have no problem with that mind. They are our players and I am happy to invest. Same with Michut, who on very brief evidence looks decent. I do wonder though if any of them will really play a major part this season. I am not convinced. They all look bench ready at best, not quite first team ready. They might get away with a couple of starts here and there, but I think anymore and they might start to struggle. With the physicality more than anything. It is a demanding league in that respect, and they all look like a bit of learning there is needed.

None of this is meant as a criticism. I am happy they are all here to grow with us. I think in January though we might need to give the core 15 or so lads a bit of help.
 
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TopCat_ said:
These loan players have been here 5 mins and people are judging them. Would love to have seen the comments on Broadhead at this time last season<laugh>
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I really don't see the problem in discussing players and how they're doing, so far.

I think it's a good thread and the OP has put his thoughts across well and he's clearly stated it's just a debate to pass the time away.
 
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FellTop said:
I think with Diallo he has a brilliant first touch, but he doesnt look like a player who knoes what he is going to do when on the ball. I really hope they all have a great season with us but right now I dont think he deserves a place in the first 11, which I would be the recruitment team assumed he would when signing him. I also reckon Man Utd are seeing any future sale price dwindling whilst he doesnt do much at our place. It all just seems like a poor fit at this stage, and with 11 games until the window opens I wonder if Sunderland or Man Utd are thinking about ending the deal then? Like I say, I hope he proves me wrong.

I know what you mean re Ba and Bennette doing well. I still look at both and think they have a lot of learning to do. I have no problem with that mind. They are our players and I am happy to invest. Same with Michut, who on very brief evidence looks decent. I do wonder though if any of them will really play a major part this season. I am not convinced. They all look bench ready at best, not quite first team ready. They might get away with a couple of starts here and there, but I think anymore and they might start to struggle. With the physicality more than anything. It is a demanding league in that respect, and they all look like a bit of learning there is needed.

None of this is meant as a criticism. I am happy they are all here to grow with us. I think in January though we might need to give the core 15 or so lads a bit of help.
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yup, cannot argue with any of that to be honest.

i think the loan slots could/should have been used more for experience, the young lads are more for 'future sales' and need time to grow into the league...while none of them have tried to hide on the pitch and i feel all have contributed we still have to remember they are young lads (much like our own lads) and as you say, this is a demanding league for them.
 
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TopCat_ said:
Whatever. The fact of the matter is that these lads have been here 5 mins and to criticise them is frankly laughable
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Please don't misunderstand me......I'm not supporting any criticism of the lads.....merely trying to point out that opinions expressed by people are inevitably based on judgements they may have made.
 
TopCat_ said:
Whatever. The fact of the matter is that these lads have been here 5 mins and to criticise them is frankly laughable
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How long is allowable before we can make a judgement on a loan player? They are here for a season is all. We are more than 25% through that timeframe. In another 25% of the timeframe we have an option to upgrade their positions if they dont appear to be working out. I have specifically asked about loan players, not our own players, because they naturally have a much shorter shelf life with us and therefore should be judged more quickly. No good thinking they will be better next season is it...
 
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FellTop said:
I am wondering if we have made good use of loans this season? If I am honest I am not particulalry impressed!

I am not including Michut as we seem set to buy him next summer, so am assuming that is just about staying in FFP.

Simms and Diallo I am not yet sold on. I know Simms has a couple of goals, but I think his overall game has been not the type we needed to bring in. Diallo I just am not seeing where he brings qualities we dont already have. With these two I wonder if we have got it a bit wrong on the recruitment front? Might we have identified different types of players? Would it be a bad move to send either back in Jan and go for a different type of player?

A debate to while away a Monday night...
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Yep. On balance I think I'd agree with that.

We have got a lot right with players coming in during the last 18 months, and maybe these two will crack on. But it might take longer than is ideal; they might be off just as they are finding their feet!

There is a bit to go until January, so hopefully they make their own case. I know nothing about Michut so can't comment.

We'll see, and you can't win them all, but another forward, preferably a centre forward, would be welcome if one becomes available in January.
 
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FellTop said:
How long is allowable before we can make a judgement on a loan player? They are here for a season is all. We are more than 25% through that timeframe. In another 25% of the timeframe we have an option to upgrade their positions if they dont appear to be working out. I have specifically asked about loan players, not our own players, because they naturally have a much shorter shelf life with us and therefore should be judged more quickly. No good thinking they will be better next season is it...
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You're right. The single start and 3 subs appearances Diallo has made, together with the 20 mins Michut has played has proven they are ****e and should be written off. Thanks for clearing that up
 
TopCat_ said:
You're right. The single start and 3 subs appearances Diallo has made, together with the 20 mins Michut has played has proven they are ****e and should be written off. Thanks for clearing that up
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Is that honestly your thoughts?

Mental.

Nobody else has said that, OTT post of the year.
 
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TopCat_ said:
You're right. The single start and 3 subs appearances Diallo has made, together with the 20 mins Michut has played has proven they are ****e and should be written off. Thanks for clearing that up
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In my first post I said I wasnt considering Michut as he is effectively our player for the long term. The fact Diallo, as you say has played so little, may be an indicator he isnt what we need right now.

Anyway, I was just sharing some opinions and thoughts. Over and out.
 
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