Coronavirus

[Star of David Bardsley]

So what would you have done with them?

I'm sure it was yourself in the early days of covid, that chatted about the older generation dying to save the younger generation, your view only changed when that really happened.

If I remember correctly I said that was the realistic decision if we reached an Italy-esque situation of doctors having to choose who got saved and you started windmilling over something I didn’t actually say. Fortunately that didn’t happen.

I’d have kept them in hospital. We had plenty of capacity once the additional was created at great expense to the benefit of a few Tory donors and not utilised.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

The sick people where dumped into Care Homes by the NHS without the NHS checking if they had COVID, the same thing would have happened no matter who was in Goverment

I’m not going to argue with you, Duggie. I’m sure that’s how you remember it.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/p...government-failures-during-covid-19-pandemic/

 

[brb]

If I remember correctly I said that was the realistic decision if we reached an Italy-esque situation of doctors having to choose who got saved and you started windmilling over something I didn’t actually say. Fortunately that didn’t happen.

I’d have kept them in hospital. We had plenty of capacity once the additional was created at great expense to the benefit of a few Tory donors and not utilised.

So you said it was a realistic decision - but when others made that realistic decision come true, but based on lies rather than the truth, because as Abe told me today, the truth often hurts. There is no easy way to tell anyone, that actually we can't cope, and don't know what to do with the elderly, so they took their chances and lied their way through it, but at the end of the day, the outcome had already been predicted, albeit not admitted, as you say, you only had to look at Italy, but human beings don't like realisation when it hits them head on.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So you said it was a realistic decision - but when others made that realistic decision come true, but based on lies rather than the truth, because as Abe told me today, the truth often hurts. There is no easy way to tell anyone, that actually we can't cope, and don't know what to do with the elderly, so they took their chances and lied their way through it, but at the end of the day, the outcome had already been predicted, albeit not admitted, as you say, you only had to look at Italy, but human beings don't like realisation when it hits them head on.

We didn’t have to make that decision as a small part of Italy did at the outbreak of its pandemic, well before the virus was here in significant numbers.

 

[duggie2000]

I’m not going to argue with you, Duggie. I’m sure that’s how you remember it.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/p...government-failures-during-covid-19-pandemic/

My point being B Ranger that the first few weeks/months were a ****storm because no-one really knew what to do, the easiest thing to do when you are not making the life or death decisions is to say We would not have done the same thing

Had Labour had been in charge and made similar wrong decisions the rest of Parliament would have been saying We would not have done that

 

[brb]

We didn’t have to make that decision as a small part of Italy did at the outbreak of its pandemic, well before the virus was here in significant numbers.

I'm pretty certain in my own mind, no matter what party was in power, nothing would have saved them. It don't make it right, it's not right, but people hate thinking about the reality of how vunerable as humans we are, especially when we are old. Myself I even stopped smoking due to covid, simply because I faced reality of the possibility of getting put on a ventilator, and I'm probably much younger than those that died in care homes. We expect too much from medical science and hospitals these days, I'm not trying to be crass, I'm just a realist.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I'm pretty certain in my own mind, no matter what party was in power, nothing would have saved them. It don't make it right, it's not right, but people hate thinking about the reality of how vunerable as humans we are, especially when we are old. Myself I even stopped smoking due to covid, simply because I faced reality of the possibility of getting put on a ventilator, and I'm probably much younger than those that died in care homes. We expect too much from medical science and hospitals these days, I'm not trying to be crass, I'm just a realist.

I’m not disputing that you think that.

 

[brb]

At the beginning of the crisis of covid, I was shouting we should be shutting our island down, and asking why Boris wasn't doing it. But then in the clear light of day, I realise in a modern world of technology and travel, that is not so easy to do, for litterally dozens of reasons, which I'm not going to bore ppl with. Even with what we know now, would we be prepared to close up shop on our island if it happened again, probably not, why, because it just sends people nuts and fooks up the economy, having longer term consequences.

 

[Solid Air]

I'm pretty certain in my own mind, no matter what party was in power, nothing would have saved them. It don't make it right, it's not right, but people hate thinking about the reality of how vunerable as humans we are, especially when we are old. Myself I even stopped smoking due to covid, simply because I faced reality of the possibility of getting put on a ventilator, and I'm probably much younger than those that died in care homes. We expect too much from medical science and hospitals these days, I'm not trying to be crass, I'm just a realist.

well sending patients who the NHS knew had Covid into Nursing Homes made all the strictures to Nursing homes about infection break barriers a bit pointless and definitely led to deaths in some nursing homes that otherwise wouldn't have happened .
Obviously elderly and those with underlying conditions were more vulnerable but that doesn't excuse that decision taken at the top level of the NHS and possibly signed off by the the then Health Secretary though he/she may well have not realised what they proposed .

 

[brb]

well sending patients who the NHS knew had Covid into Nursing Homes made all the strictures to Nursing homes about infection break barriers a bit pointless and definitely led to deaths in some nursing homes that otherwise wouldn't have happened .
Obviously elderly and those with underlying conditions were more vulnerable but that doesn't excuse that decision taken at the top level of the NHS and possibly signed off by the the then Health Secretary though he/she may well have not realised what they proposed .

So again the question, what would you have done with them. We needed the wards, we needed the nurses and doctors that were looking after them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's right, but regardless if the government signed it off, the hospitals were telling us they couldn't cope, and ppl can throw up dozens of reasons why they couldn't cope, but the reality was it was a crisis there and then that had to be dealt with. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but shutting down our hospitals due to being overwhelmed by covid patients means someone has to suffer. The choice was made, knowing the outcome, but as I said earlier, ppl were already saying the young should survive in the place of the old, but when those decisions have to actually be made, it's shhite.

 

[brb]

What would I do if it happened again, you would probably have to stop covid patients going to an NHS hospital, and secondment of private hospitals by the government for covid patients, or visa versa (NHS v Private).

 

[Diego]

It’s the electorate I have little faith in. Starmer is saying all the right things a left of centre lead should but under FPTP the odds are against any Labour Party getting a majority. They’ve committed to a fairer voting system, which would be a great thing. A hung Parliament still makes him PM anyway as no one is getting into bed with the UKIP that the Tories now are.

Do you know how easy it is to "say all the right things" when in opposition?
It's when the time comes to deliver that the excuses start

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Do you know how easy it is to "say all the right things" when in opposition?
It's when the time comes to deliver that the excuses start

These aren’t undeliverable promises designed to woo thick old ****s though.

 

[Diego]

These aren’t undeliverable promises designed to woo thick old ****s though.

Convince me, when they say "we will do this, we will do that" how do i know they can actually achieve it?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Convince me, when they say "we will do this, we will do that" how do i know they can actually achieve it?

You don’t unless you can predict the future. You have to make up your own mind firstly that their goals are achievable when the alternative is a Party that has consistently failed to deliver on its promises for over a decade.

 

[duggie2000]

You don’t unless you can predict the future. You have to make up your own mind firstly that their goals are achievable when the alternative is a Party that has consistently failed to deliver on its promises for over a decade.

Ahh you are talking about Blairs Government

 

[Diego]

You don’t unless you can predict the future. You have to make up your own mind firstly that their goals are achievable when the alternative is a Party that has consistently failed to deliver on its promises for over a decade.

So you vote for the one's that promise what you want without any regard as to how they are going to provide it and at what cost?

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Ahh you are talking about Blairs Government

Living standards rose considerably under Blair for the poorest and majority. That’s now reversing rapidly.

 

[duggie2000]

Living standards rose considerably under Blair for the poorest and majority. That’s now reversing rapidly.

Recollections may vary

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So you vote for the one's that promise what you want without any regard as to how they are going to provide it and at what cost?

Who said there’s no regard for it? Manifestos are meant to be costed.

As I said, look at what the alternative has delivered over the last 12 years and even the last couple of weeks. Apparently extreme measures like nationalising the railways are a pittance in comparison to what this lot have siphoned off.