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Prove the Doubters Wrong

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by wizered, Aug 25, 2022.

  1. RedorDead

    RedorDead Well-Known Member

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    Tom Heaton was first choice and only with us for the one year.
     
    #61
  2. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Would Pearson spend on Diony or Kent ???? Doubt it. Hes been slashing the wage bill. Careful with cash. Has to be.
     
    #62
  3. Supcon72

    Supcon72 Well-Known Member

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    He does now, but would he have been so frugal 3 years ago, pre-COVID?
     
    #63
  4. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    would he have spunked up the wall the money city did often on nada thats the point??? the answers no and he hes criticised the way the club was ran, hes doing a more than decent job on what 40% less cost???
     
    #64
  5. AshtonRed

    AshtonRed Well-Known Member

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    Obviously he’s working within our present budget, had he been here pre COVID, the budget would have been completely different. It doesn’t appear to be his way to want such a big squad, but is that due to circumstances?, I don’t know.
     
    #65
  6. Red Robin

    Red Robin Well-Known Member

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    Nige has always worked with a tight squad-always prefered to.
     
    #66
  7. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    Was it Gerken then? My mind is blurry now - must be my age!!
     
    #67
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  8. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Different but not completely.

    BCFC were already heading towards extensive cost cutting prior to covid. Covid was not responsible for the huge losses, the extravagent spending past income from 2016 onwards was. City went into a period of spending where financial losses could not be serviced beyond a short term of seasons.
     
    #68
  9. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t it be just typical Bristol City if we end the season in the top 2 but have FFP points deduction pushing us back down to mid-table !!!!!
     
    #69
  10. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    good point likely not


    Pre covid we would maybe not have been in circa £40m debt! so making comparisons of what may have been or not are futile..... no covid so would the form have dropped off? would LJ have been terminated? would DH have had a better opportunity without Covid although LJ COULD HAVE LEFT? NP so would he actually be here? with or without Covid ....
    we can only look at what history has given us .. hindsight is a very good weapon ... it gives help to what was right or wrong [ for anything not just football ] .
     
    #70

  11. Supcon72

    Supcon72 Well-Known Member

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    Easy to criticise an approach after the event, so that holds no credence to me. Hard to believe any manager would say no to being given pots of money in an attempt to achieve promotion. If NP is that exception, then fair play to him, but it would be one hell of an exception and not one I am buying! haven't seen or heard about a manager who has said to his board, "thanks for the offer of xx million to spend on the squad, but I'd really rather prefer we spend xx hundred thousand instead, all good boss"....
     
    #71
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  12. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    The approach was criticised by many at the time.

    Would Mr Pearson given the same resources conducted recruitment differently? The answer would be a unequivocal yes. There was no bigger picture driving recruitment at BCFC which created unprecedented debt and heavy squad size.

    During covid the financial covid impact was put at 7 - 8 million in a season. 7 - 8 million of a 38.4 million loss.
     
    #72
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  13. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    Interesting - and I agree (to a point) - for example, if you gave Neil Warnock Manchester City's budget would he be able to keep them at the pinnacle of English football? Probably not is my guess. Warnock's skill is getting 'average' players to play above themselves and Warnock has had the opportunity to manage in the Prem on several occasions (Palace, Cardiff, Sheff U) but has failed every time. Equally, if SL gave NP an unlimited budget tomorrow (not possible of course due to FFP) I'm not sure he would know what to do with it IMHO.
    Managing established superstars with their huge egos is a particular skill that only a few select people can (SAF, Pep, Wenger, Klopp?)
    LJ certainly had a generous budget - but its important to remember that we are only 'lil ole Bristol City' after all - we weren't able to attract top players - even Bradley Dack (who the F?) turned us down FFS - so did Andre Gray and Dwight Gayle back in the day - so we needed to offer more to get their types on board. Whatever people feel about the Lee Johnson/ Mark Ashton era, under their tenure we have now matured into an established Championship side - which has raised our stock in the market place - making us a more attractive place to come for up and coming players to want to come to.
    The financial side of football has changed now since COVID - there isn't as much money available washing around - aside from the newly-relegated teams with their parachute payments. Recruitment is much more targeted - players AND clubs know that it's no longer viable to have a bunch of 'nearly' men or 'ones for the future' gobbling up first team wages but yet never gracing the hallowed turf.
    Nigel Pearson, after a slow start, seems to be successfully building a side that I am really beginning to enjoy watching (apart from the last 15 minutes of games where I need my adult pampers). The current situation seems to suit him perfectly - he seems now to be the right man at the right time. I admit I wasn't convinced at first, but we are evolving and I like what I'm now seeing.
     
    #73
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  14. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Comparing finances. Steve Cotterill operated with differing fees and wages to Lee Johnson. Fees that were little Bristol City. Lee Johnson didn't operate with the same rrsources as Steve Cotterill..

    Steve Cotterill was at BCFC when revenues looked like this 2015-16 Bristol City Holdings £14,175,396 and Bristol City FC Limited £10,349,426. By 2018 that had doubled.

    It shoulds be noted that Maguire and Gray had been identified, and deals agreed by Cotterill. A board member attempted to renegotiate the deals when Cotterill was on holiday and the transfers collapsed.

    Cotterill's policy was to buy players to specific position x a small squad with small numbers of quality additions. Lee Johnson policy wasn't.
     
    #74
  15. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    Yes that’s true.
    Cotts had the ‘dirty’ done to him.
    We’ve been around here before - the offers were between £9m and £12m I seem to remember (purchasing prices)
    Cotts must have had approval from SL to offer those bids.
    I can’t remember who stepped in and ruined the Maguire deal - but the others were simply rejected out of hand because Gayle and Gray didn’t want to come to little ole Brizzle City
     
    #75
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  16. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    What I’m saying is that we are a bigger fish than we used to be and everyone along the journey has played their part.
     
    #76
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  17. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    <doh> HE WASNT and could never have been .. he was recruited with an opportunity to assess the situation knowing he had NO MONEY ..AND LIKELY A POINTS DEDUCTION pending EFL assessing COVID ON THE NEGATIVE SIDE. He chose to continue into the job full time on contract ... history tells the truth, not how you wish it was ........................

    it is quandary, HE HAS a strong core of players and a depth of home grown talent to fill in so technically has a big squad. I think also on the 1 year loans there is a call back clause.. it covers not only "needed at home" but not getting the game time or experience expected..


    You must be the only person on the planet that thinks Covid was not an interupting factor! All the reasons are out there why.... for all sorts of things let alone just BCFC .............
     
    #77
  18. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    ACTUAL ON PAPER COMPARISON... mostly gate money .. the truth is like doing accounts a loss on paper is never [ almost never ] a physical loss there a whole range of terminology that absorbs the finances ...
     
    #78
  19. RedorDead

    RedorDead Well-Known Member

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    Gray was coming here, the board member trying to re negotiate on the deal put him off. It also allowed Burnley time to come in and offer a better deal.
     
    #79
  20. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    I didnt say that and the quoted text doesnt state that either. Covid was not responsible for losses of tens of millions. The primary driver was the wage bill a point I made when looking at previous City accounts. I predicted a loss of post twenty five million and it was a reality.
     

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