Off Topic Which manager is next for the sack 2022/2023?

[THE FOOL]

Why has Gerrards ability as a manager been so badly damaged by his brief spell at villa?

I never assumed he'd be liverpool manager, very much a lazy link, but I'm unsure why being as he's had the job less than twelve months and villa where no great shakes before hand he's suddenly seen as not good enough.

 

[Milk..]

Why has Gerrards ability as a manager been so badly damaged by his brief spell at villa?

I never assumed he'd be liverpool manager, very much a lazy link, but I'm unsure why being as he's had the job less than twelve months and villa where no great shakes before hand he's suddenly seen as not good enough.

I don't think Gerrard's career is irredeemable. His spell at Villa will be counted as a negative if he gets sacked, but his Rangers accomplishments should be enough to give him a little goodwill for a while longer.

Plenty of successful managers have had bad spells, sometimes a manager is just not a good fit for a club.

If Klopp left this year I wouldn't touch Gerrard, but maybe in the future he can develop his management skills more and be good enough. Don't write him off yet, buts he's still got to prove himself.

 

[Solid Air]

Why has Gerrards ability as a manager been so badly damaged by his brief spell at villa?

I never assumed he'd be liverpool manager, very much a lazy link, but I'm unsure why being as he's had the job less than twelve months and villa where no great shakes before hand he's suddenly seen as not good enough.

he has been there since Dec 21 and has spent quite a lot* and has made the team worse since Jan 22 .

*Obviously the Grealish fee covers the recent transfers

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I personally never saw gerrard as a manager having seen him struggle in his more senior playing years with belief in what was going on round him. His head dropped with Hodgson appointment . I felt he didn't really drive the side or make a difference any more but rather drooped, he did the same at the end of rodgers era.

I think he had publicly outed players at both rangers and villa and that never goes well. I think that skill of a lot of real man managers is to break away from the player judging another player attitude where you might say what you think and be the leader who will defend his own and only talk in private about where they are. its a mindset a lot of former players just dont get.

I don't think he is LFC manager material and for me i am sneakily relieved he might be damaged goods shortly as the clamour for him from some quarters is absolutely massive.

 

[Milk..]

I personally never saw gerrard as a manager having seen him struggle in his more senior playing years with belief in what was going on round him. His head dropped with Hodgson appointment . I felt he didn't really drive the side or make a difference any more but rather drooped, he did the same at the end of rodgers era.

I think he had publicly outed players at both rangers and villa and that never goes well. I think that skill of a lot of real man managers is to break away from the player judging another player attitude where you might say what you think and be the leader who will defend his own and only talk in private about where they are. its a mindset a lot of former players just dont get.

I don't think he is LFC manager material and for me i am sneakily relieved he might be damaged goods shortly as the clamour for him from some quarters is absolutely massive.

When they were both playing, I would have pegged Gerrard to be the pundit and Carragher to be the manager.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

When they were both playing, I would have pegged Gerrard to be the pundit and Carragher to be the manager.

Have to say yes at the time Carragher was thought of as the thinker and gerrard the guy who just had the talent so it was assumed carragher would do that.

I mean its not the same thing but The word around barca was always xavi was the guy everyone turned to for hi opinion and what he was thinking as a senior player etc so he was a natural fit for that next step.

Carragher was thought of as thinking about the game and that but he immediately jumped at punditry like alan hansen so I am thinking that in the end the easy life was what he wanted and as such we dodged a bullet.

Geerard for me.... the giant name is always pushed to being the top man but in many ways he's suit a youth coaching role far more cos clearly he wanted to not be away from the game and that. I simply don't see him as a manager who has to pick people up and keep them on a high level.

Maybe like keane? A bit of an unrealistic view of the material he has to work with? not every player is an elite mentality and not every mid sized club can have 20 elite mentalities.

 

[LuisDiazgamechanger]

If Gerard has not left Glasgow Rangers, he should have won another title or about to win it EPL is stronger that SPL. Villa has not got plenty of money to spend.

 

[Treble]

Have to say yes at the time Carragher was thought of as the thinker and gerrard the guy who just had the talent so it was assumed carragher would do that.

I mean its not the same thing but The word around barca was always xavi was the guy everyone turned to for hi opinion and what he was thinking as a senior player etc so he was a natural fit for that next step.

Carragher was thought of as thinking about the game and that but he immediately jumped at punditry like alan hansen so I am thinking that in the end the easy life was what he wanted and as such we dodged a bullet.

Geerard for me.... the giant name is always pushed to being the top man but in many ways he's suit a youth coaching role far more cos clearly he wanted to not be away from the game and that. I simply don't see him as a manager who has to pick people up and keep them on a high level.

Maybe like keane? A bit of an unrealistic view of the material he has to work with? not every player is an elite mentality and not every mid sized club can have 20 elite mentalities.

Agree, Keane and I'd add Hoddle were both very much of that ilk. Different type of players obviously but expected everyone they managed to play to their level and then couldn't understand when they didn't and ripped them to shreds

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Agree, Keane and I'd add Hoddle were both very much of that ilk. Different type of players obviously but expected everyone they managed to play to their level and then couldn't understand when they didn't and ripped them to shreds

That's it.

Like... rangers are not really a hot bed of elite talent or professionalism no matter what they might think esp when they got back to to that premiership. To publicly pick out players is only going to piss off half the squad

Same at villa. Gerrard has singled out mings and thats never going to end well.

Same happened at Leicester. The chicken burger brigade won at Leicester and got Shakespeare the job that time.

 

[Treble]

That's it.

Like... rangers are not really a hot bed of elite talent or professionalism no matter what they might think esp when they got back to to that premiership. To publicly pick out players is only going to piss off half the squad

Same at villa. Gerrard has singled out mings and thats never going to end well.

Same happened at Leicester. The chicken burger brigade won at Leicester and got Shakespeare the job that time.

Lampard did similar at Chelsea when the performances dipped and that was the beginning of the end for him.

I think you can do it IF it's about the player being disruptive or causing trouble and the rest of the squad can see it.

Arteta and Aubamayang springs to mind here. But that's entirely different to a great player turning manager and ripping into lesser players.

Unfortunately Ole went the complete opposite way and tried to make everyone his bezzy mate.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Lampard did similar at Chelsea when the performances dipped and that was the beginning of the end for him.

I think you can do it IF it's about the player being disruptive or causing trouble and the rest of the squad can see it.

Arteta and Aubamayang springs to mind here. But that's entirely different to a great player turning manager and ripping into lesser players.

Unfortunately Ole went the complete opposite way and tried to make everyone his bezzy mate.

Yeah. One skill of management is to lcik their arses in public and immediately and ruthlessly move them on.

It you've not got the power to move a troublesome player them you are at nothing.

I'd actually say ogs was done for the second ronaldo was purchased. He was too big to be dropped and too disruptive. Ten hang must be desperate to see him gone

Ogs also failed to get shut of pogba.

There's probably a.common theme enough through several of these managers careers. Arete did drop the hammer on aubameyang but he has indulged xhaka and for the life of me I cannot see why managers like that guy. Massive liability.

 

[Treble]

Yeah. One skill of management is to lcik their arses in public and immediately and ruthlessly move them on.

It you've not got the power to move a troublesome player them you are at nothing.

I'd actually say ogs was done for the second ronaldo was purchased. He was too big to be dropped and too disruptive. Ten hang must be desperate to see him gone

Ogs also failed to get shut of pogba.

There's probably a.common theme enough through several of these managers careers. Arete did drop the hammer on aubameyang but he has indulged xhaka and for the life of me I cannot see why managers like that guy. Massive liability.

The football we were playing was ****e even before Ronaldo arrived. It was only a matter of time - namely the end of lockdown and the return of fans to grounds and the rest of the PL getting their act together at the start of the 2021 season.

Probably the wrong board to be posting this on, but for all the hate he gets Ronaldo is 100% committed to the craft. And I'd say it was quite the opposite scenario to him being the problem. He probably arrived, saw the half-arsed state of our "training" and the slack effort from the players which had been allowed to develop under Ole trying to be their bezzy mate and probably told them exactly what he thought of it after the performances they were putting in.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The football we were playing was ****e even before Ronaldo arrived. It was only a matter of time - namely the end of lockdown and the return of fans to grounds and the rest of the PL getting their act together at the start of the 2021 season.

Probably the wrong board to be posting this on, but for all the hate he gets Ronaldo is 100% committed to the craft. And I'd say it was quite the opposite scenario to him being the problem. He probably arrived, saw the half-arsed state of our "training" and the slack effort from the players which had been allowed to develop under Ole trying to be their bezzy mate and probably told them exactly what he thought of it after the performances they were putting in.

I think ogs made more mistakes with your team over time the fitness your side had in his first full season was vastly higher than his last. I dont know what happened there but it was so obvious from afar that the fitness and running dropped.

It's not the wrong board to talk about ronaldo's commitment to the legend of ronaldo. Every peice done on him agrees he is beyond obsession when it comes to fitness and what he puts in to call himself better than messi. it's very clear to.me anyway he would be severely unimpressed.

The issue with ronaldo is/was he wanted to dictate the time he played and how and that never works
It's better than a retirement home neymar has been on for 5 years but it's still disruptive when he sulked like a kid and storms off down tunnels at being subbed etc.

In the end ten haag has summarily dismissed certain man utd players at this point which is exactly what he needed to do but now the club need to shift them on or they need to crawl.back and work for a shirt.

 

[Treble]

I think ogs made more mistakes with your team over time the fitness your side had in his first full season was vastly higher than his last. I dont know what happened there but it was so obvious from afar that the fitness and running dropped.

It's not the wrong board to talk about ronaldo's commitment to the legend of ronaldo. Every peice done on him agrees he is beyond obsession when it comes to fitness and what he puts in to call himself better than messi. it's very clear to.me anyway he would be severely unimpressed.

The issue with ronaldo is/was he wanted to dictate the time he played and how and that never works
It's better than a retirement home neymar has been on for 5 years but it's still disruptive when he sulked like a kid and storms off down tunnels at being subbed etc.

In the end ten haag has summarily dismissed certain man utd players at this point which is exactly what he needed to do but now the club need to shift them on or they need to crawl.back and work for a shirt.

There's an old adage I heard a while ago called the 4 4 2 rule for new managers at a club.

Just seeing the squad as a ratio of 4, 4, 2. Then 4 will be on board with what you want. 4 will be undecided. And 2 will be opposed/potential troublemakers.

The job for the manager is to use the 4 on board to bring on board the the 4 undecided before the 2 opposed get in their heads at which point you're on a hiding to nothing. But if you can get the 4 backing you to get the 4 undecided's on board then you alienate the 2 disrupters and get them the fck out of the club with little trouble.

I'm happy as fck that we've signed the players we have, if only because many of them are Ten Hag's men. They're the ones on board and he will need them to change the undecideds and those who have just blown like a fart in the wind over the past year or two. Glad that negs like Pogba have fcked off and tbph Shaw is another one, either he gets on board or he can fck off n' all.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

There's an old adage I heard a while ago called the 4 4 2 rule for new managers at a club.

Just seeing the squad as a ratio of 4, 4, 2. Then 4 will be on board with what you want. 4 will be undecided. And 2 will be opposed/potential troublemakers.

The job for the manager is to use the 4 on board to bring on board the the 4 undecided before the 2 opposed get in their heads at which point you're on a hiding to nothing. But if you can get the 4 backing you to get the 4 undecided's on board then you alienate the 2 disrupters and get them the fck out of the club with little trouble.

I'm happy as fck that we've signed the players we have, if only because many of them are Ten Hag's men. They're the ones on board and he will need them to change the undecideds and those who have just blown like a fart in the wind over the past year or two. Glad that negs like Pogba have fcked off and tbph Shaw is another one, either he gets on board or he can fck off n' all.

It's probably fair for most things tbh.

No manager in football can get by without senior players driving the dressing room for them. This is why I smile when people savage henderson and milner. They.might be slow and slower but they absolutely drive out dressing room

Same story as Hodgson. Gerrard and carragher did not sign up imo you.could tell and it wasn't long before he was out.

You are right that a lad like martinez ran through a brick wall against us for his manager/team and was trying to mix it with salah etc. He's too short. He will get absolutely roasted up and down this league but against firmino and salah he could show what he had. Ten haag's picked his full back and has picked what amounts to the faster younger types up front and then people willing to work a bit in the middle.

Quite how that translates now is unknown bit I fancy it will work better than Chelsea who've just bought all sorts of crap and god only knows how it will work out.

 

[saintanton]

It's probably fair for most things tbh.

No manager in football can get by without senior players driving the dressing room for them. This is why I smile when people savage henderson and milner. They.might be slow and slower but they absolutely drive out dressing room

Same story as Hodgson. Gerrard and carragher did not sign up imo you.could tell and it wasn't long before he was out.

You are right that a lad like martinez ran through a brick wall against us for his manager/team and was trying to mix it with salah etc. He's too short. He will get absolutely roasted up and down this league but against firmino and salah he could show what he had. Ten haag's picked his full back and has picked what amounts to the faster younger types up front and then people willing to work a bit in the middle.

Quite how that translates now is unknown bit I fancy it will work better than Chelsea who've just bought all sorts of crap and god only knows how it will work out.

I'll probably irritate a few but - imo, the people who slag off Hendo and Milner don't appreciate the value of structure within a squad.
They tend to only see what's happening on the pitch, and place too much importance on ball skills alone.
Obviously skilful players are an enormous asset, and without them we'd be nowhere, but the value of commitment and organisation shouldn't be underestimated, and the wisdom and experience of older players is necessary to keep the younger ones grounded. Both on and off the pitch.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I'll probably irritate a few but - imo, the people who slag off Hendo and Milner don't appreciate the value of structure within a squad.
They tend to only see what's happening on the pitch, and place too much importance on ball skills alone.
Obviously skilful players are an enormous asset, and without them we'd be nowhere, but the value of commitment and organisation shouldn't be underestimated, and the wisdom and experience of older players is necessary to keep the younger ones grounded. Both on and off the pitch.

Like ze russians. If you don't have a few grizzled ncos to keep the privates in line you'll not take over many countries.

Or like a few good men you do need to stick a rag down a malignerers throat and no beer man than a good nco.

Seriously though people talk about team spirit but everything at Liverpool is competition. The coaches deliberately foster this in training on a daily basis and you need these guys to be constantly on it and driving the thing every session

 

[Diego]

I'll probably irritate a few but - imo, the people who slag off Hendo and Milner don't appreciate the value of structure within a squad.
They tend to only see what's happening on the pitch, and place too much importance on ball skills alone.
Obviously skilful players are an enormous asset, and without them we'd be nowhere, but the value of commitment and organisation shouldn't be underestimated, and the wisdom and experience of older players is necessary to keep the younger ones grounded. Both on and off the pitch.

You need players on the pitch who are prepared to dig in and do the dirty work when games get tough, you also need players who can command respect and organise players who are going missing in games or slacking.
I think you are very lucky to have two like Milner and Henderson in both respects.

Oh, and they can play a bit too

 

[THE FOOL]

I'll probably irritate a few but - imo, the people who slag off Hendo and Milner don't appreciate the value of structure within a squad.
They tend to only see what's happening on the pitch, and place too much importance on ball skills alone.
Obviously skilful players are an enormous asset, and without them we'd be nowhere, but the value of commitment and organisation shouldn't be underestimated, and the wisdom and experience of older players is necessary to keep the younger ones grounded. Both on and off the pitch.

I'm unsure on this one.

When milner is blowing out his arse at 30 minutes and not being able to control the ball, or Henderson gives the ball away for the 3rd match in a row that leads to a goal, your first thought isn't " oh well, I bet he's good to have in the dressing room".

It's bound to lead to critism, plus I wonder how long that "respect" from younger players will last once its obvious they are truly past it? Does it not just become like the old fart in any work place moaning about work ethic and times gone past?

Like any quality it needs replacing.

Quick edit: I'm not suggesting Henderson is past it, I think he's still very good, that we are still starting milner is a travesty I'm afraid.

 

[Milk..]

Let's not kid ourselves. Milner still performs on the field too.. he's not just a dressing room icon. He's kind of looked at as backup these days but often when he comes on, he's better than who he replaced.

My only issue with Milner is that he can't play every game all season any more. I don't doubt him when he comes on. Henderson may give me occasional anxieties but when we have Keira and Ox on our team, hes far from our worst midfielder... And he always works hard.