Off Topic Politics Thread

[Archers Road]

Yes. Yes I am. Because screaming for absurd purity tests and attacking the Labour Party for trying to be electable will result in even more years of conservative misrule. I don’t understand why this is so hard for people to grasp

Just like the people who attack blair and his government. We should be begging for that now just to shift us back in a sensible direction and then go from there

After such a long period of misrule and the utterly awful state of most public services and the laughable Tory leadership candidates the only way labour lose is by stuff like the above - being attacked and discredited by people who should be supporting them. What use do pushing them into unelectable positions actually do? What does it achieve for these people? Other than making their own lives worse? People are quick to criticise Brexit voters for voting to make themselves worse off. Taking a gun and pointing it at the feet of the only party who even remotely:

- is electable; and
- has your interests at heart

and then pulling the trigger time after time is not the way to go about things

So yes. I am worried about left wingers. And it isn’t zero sum either. I can be worried about both

But I expect the conservatives to destroy this country to enrich themselves and their donors. It is baked in. I do not expect it from left wingers

Whilst I agree with some of what you say here, I don’t see that calling out the the leader of the Labour Party for being too cautious around support for Trades Unions, is pointing a gun at the feet of the party. More like the sort of legitimate discourse which ought to be considered healthy in a democratic movement.

As for the Blair years, while I respect the fact he won three elections, I think a return to that sort of “conservatism lite” would be counterproductive and unnecessary.

The world has changed a lot since 1997, the gap between the rich and the rest is wider than it’s been since WWII, many people are really feeling the pinch, and this is just the beginning of some really tough times for working people. If Labour doesn’t speak up for the working class of this country now, then don’t be surprised to see the accelerated growth of the populist right.

 

[The Ides of March]

Lucky escape for the lionesses, I guess!

No Downing Street reception for victorious Lionesses as Boris Johnson goes on summer break (thelondoneconomic.com)

 

[Onionman]

A rather delightful and informative thread about how the Blair years actually were versus how they are now perceived, i.e. Toryesque.

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Vin

 

[Gregm1988]

A rather delightful and informative thread about how the Blair years actually were versus how they are now perceived.

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Vin

Thanks for this. Pretty much what I was getting at but with far more information to support the point. We aren’t going to jump from 12 years of increasingly right wing Tory rule to a proper left wing government. It just isn’t going to happen. Not least due to our electoral system

 

[StJabbo1]

A rather delightful and informative thread about how the Blair years actually were versus how they are now perceived, i.e. Toryesque.

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Vin

Thanks for that Vin, it does put some perspective on the "tory light".

 

[Archers Road]

The Blair government was small c conservative in that it conceded a number of economic arguments to the right.

Some of those arguments, eg public ownership of utilities, outsourcing of some aspects of public services to private interests etc, are ripe for revisiting. As, certainly, is the notion that the more lightly government regulates an economy is, the more it will benefit the public purse.

 

[tiggermaster]

How about wonderful ideas looking forward like Sure Start.. Ways of encouraging parents to increase their skills to ensure a better future for all.. Never mind the economics, think how kids might grow up with the right values..

 

[The Ides of March]

I remain convinced that Liz Truss will get elected and maybe even before a final vote of Tory party members as I can see Sunak being asked to step aside due to disharmony for the party.

The next year will be fascinating in Bitish politics. I can see a Truss government facing a no confidence vote within 6 months and I have to admit that I feel it woud be impossible for her to be anything more than a stop gap. It would be too great a leap of faith to imagine her leading the Tories in the next general election. I feel she will get binned very quickly but I am not convinved that Labour party members will feel much better about Starmer. I said during the pandemic that Boris would not last. In my opinion, Truss as leader will be a disaster and will be out on her ear pretty sharpish.

I have wriiten to Liz Truss offering my services as her chief adviser as I think she will need it!

 

[Archers Road]

I have wriiten to Liz Truss offering my services as her chief adviser as I think she will need it!

Can you please advise her to **** off?

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Criticism of Starmer for sacking Sam Tarry was misguided. The common stick to hit Labour with by the right is that they are too cosy with the unions. Whatever you or I may think about unions, the general public's idea of them having an influence on a government is viewed with suspicion. In order to convince the floaters to vote Labour, Starmer has to somehow maintain good relations with the unions and keep a respectable distance at the same time. Keeping his shadow cabinet away from picket lines was something that had been ordained and Tarry blew that to pieces. As has already been said on here Starmer's priority is to get elected, and then the party's direction can then be outlined.

As history has proved though, this can be a risky business for the electorate hoping for the changes they want or behaviour they expect after the election. For all the virtues written about Blair above the poster makes no mention of introducing tuition fees or rescinding none of Thatcher's trade union reforms.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/how-blair-conned-unions
But, by far the most heinous crime of Blair's tenure was to get this country involved in the Iraq war. Conveniently, no mention of that in the twitter post above. IMO of all the serious decisions a government can make, declaring war is the most critical and far reaching. Yet despite objections from the public and his own cabinet he was determined to continue. 136 British soldiers died in action (183 in total) and over 3,500 injured. The consequences of his actions are still being felt today.
That is how Blair should be remembered, him being called a Tory is the least anyone should be worried about.

 

[- Doing The Lambert Walk]

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[It'sOnlyAGame]

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Looks like Rishi will get his chance sooner than he thinks.

 

[AberdeenSaint]

So Truss thinks it is best to ignore Nicola Sturgeon. Allow me to translate this tory speak - Truss really means I`m scared ****less of engaging in debate with Nicola Sturgeon because she`s a lot smarter than me and she`ll rip me a new one.

 

[saintrichie123]

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[saintrichie123]

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[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Why can't we have Nicola Sturgeon as our next PM. That would please me enormously.

 

[Gregm1988]

Why can't we have Nicola Sturgeon as our next PM. That would please me enormously.

Because she won’t ever be heading up a party that will have a majority in the House of Commons. If she shelved independence (accepting that it will never get a decent majority in Scotland. It may just about get the Brexit margins), dissolved the SNP and stood as a Labour MP and then Labour leader. That would be the only way. And she is too far down the independence zealotry path for that. I wonder if there was ever a sliding doors moment that could have lead her down a different path. I don’t know enough about her history

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

Because she won’t ever be heading up a party that will have a majority in the House of Commons. If she shelved independence (accepting that it will never get a decent majority in Scotland. It may just about get the Brexit margins), dissolved the SNP and stood as a Labour MP and then Labour leader. That would be the only way. And she is too far down the independence zealotry path for that. I wonder if there was ever a sliding doors moment that could have lead her down a different path. I don’t know enough about her history

I was being very silly and did not expect a serious answer but thanks and of course I agree with you.

 

[Archers Road]

So Truss thinks it is best to ignore Nicola Sturgeon. Allow me to translate this tory speak - Truss really means I`m scared ****less of engaging in debate with Nicola Sturgeon because she`s a lot smarter than me and she`ll rip me a new one.

Truss is consciously appealing to the very worst instincts of the English nationalist element of the Tory Party. That’s what the Tories have become now, the Little England party. God knows what Scottish conservatives made of her asinine comments. Meanwhile, her hastily rescinded plans to cut public sector pay in the regions hasn’t gone down well in northern England either. The woman is almost catastrophically inept.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Truss is consciously appealing to the very worst instincts of the English nationalist element of the Tory Party. That’s what the Tories have become now, the Little England party. God knows what Scottish conservatives made of her asinine comments. Meanwhile, her hastily rescinded plans to cut public sector pay in the regions hasn’t gone down well in northern England either. The woman is almost catastrophically inept.

It occurs to me that Truss winning the Tory leadership pageant may be the best result for the Labour party, as she appears to be unable to respond to any 'off the cuff' questioning, and relies entirely on people metaphorically whispering in her ear.