Victor Orta - Stay/Go

[ristac]

Victor Orta, I have been on and off the fence so much in regards to this guy. I just want to put this out there in his favour as food for thought, I have lots of negatives too but thought why not start on a positive.....

Bielsa arrived and we felt the Championship players he signed were suddenly the best in the championship. Bielsa only agreed to join under strict conditions signing one year contracts to ensure he remained happy.

On promotion Bielsa was told Rodrigo was available and he lept at the chance to get him, in the Championship the same happened with Kiko. We know James was a huge favourite of Bielsa so I am not holding any blame against Orta for those three.

Bielsa was given three LB's to pick from and he selected Firpo, remember these players have to fit into a strict criteria set out by Bielsa


Hjelde
Greenwood
Joffy
Summerville
Drameh
Bate

Those 6 are worth at least 200% more than we paid for them, they might form part of our backbone next season.

Previous seasons we have stormed the U23 division and it was Bielsa who decided all of them should be moved on.

Thoughts?

 

[Doc]

The role of spirting Director or Director of football is the way forward in the English game. Not long ago we had the likes of Big Sam, Warnock, Arry, Big Mick all saying they would never play under of DoF. Thats changed as Conte, Tuchel, Pochetino, Sarri, and all the best coaches in the world use DoF. As Wenger and Fergy left the game. Look at the problems Man Utd have because Fergy never had one so they have gone backwards as only now are they bringing one in to work with Erik….

Orta is a wanted man in La Liga and Seria A. When he came to us he was given the brief of getting loads of players for 30 bob and Radz admitted it was his fault and should never have insisted Orta do that. He has a fantastic knowledge and database of players by positions and characteristics. So whatever type of player required by the coach he will get it, but the coach needs to get the player to do what he wants. It could be said that Firpo, Koch, Llorente, Rodrigo, James, Costa were not used properly or just couldnt get what the coach wanted.

I do know that the industry average is a 30% success rate for signings, but has Orta got that in the last 4 seasons

 

[SIDDAS]

Personally, I have nothing against Orta he wants the best for the club. every club in the world make bad signings He doesn't purposely go out and find us crap. He's hurting as much as us
This season has been horrendous for many of reasons Injuries,Small Squad. but the big one we underestimated bigtime the club in general thought we were better than we were, when everyone knew it was far from the case. The January transfer window is to blame for our current situation I believe if we did a bit of business, we would be clear of this mess.
When things go wrong everyone wants to find a scapegoat and I expect it to heighten even more on the Manager if we go down.
It's just been a shyte season all round. I'm just praying it has a silver lining and we stay up and the club learn big time from this current season.

 

[ristac]

The role of spirting Director or Director of football is the way forward in the English game. Not long ago we had the likes of Big Sam, Warnock, Arry, Big Mick all saying they would never play under of DoF. Thats changed as Conte, Tuchel, Pochetino, Sarri, and all the best coaches in the world use DoF. As Wenger and Fergy left the game. Look at the problems Man Utd have because Fergy never had one so they have gone backwards as only now are they bringing one in to work with Erik….

Orta is a wanted man in La Liga and Seria A. When he came to us he was given the brief of getting loads of players for 30 bob and Radz admitted it was his fault and should never have insisted Orta do that. He has a fantastic knowledge and database of players by positions and characteristics. So whatever type of player required by the coach he will get it, but the coach needs to get the player to do what he wants. It could be said that Firpo, Koch, Llorente, Rodrigo, James, Costa were not used properly or just couldnt get what the coach wanted.

I do know that the industry average is a 30% success rate for signings, but has Orta got that in the last 4 seasons

I'm going to sit on the fence with Costa, I did think a poor signing but seriously, his form at Wolves along with Douglas I do wonder if we just didn't play them to their strengths. Someone else pointed out to me (probably Milky ) Costa isn't a flop he was signed for the Championship and we won promotion

 

[Jammy 07]

Many top players would not accept the bonus scheme that we run as they want guaranteed multi millions every season.

That alone would rule out many potential targets.

 

[milkyboy]

When he came to us he was given the brief of getting loads of players for 30 bob and Radz admitted it was his fault and should never have insisted Orta do that.

where do you get this info from doc… radz knew nothing about running a football club. He hired orta to give him a plan. My understanding was the loads of players for 30 bob was orta’s plan. The only comments I’ve seen from radz was admitting the first year was a cock up.. not that it was his cock up. And the insinuation was very much that it was on orta.

 

[milkyboy]

I'm going to sit on the fence with Costa, I did think a poor signing but seriously, his form at Wolves along with Douglas I do wonder if we just didn't play them to their strengths. Someone else pointed out to me (probably Milky ) Costa isn't a flop he was signed for the Championship and we won promotion

not me mate.. for once!

 

[NostradEmus]

I'm going to sit on the fence with Costa, I did think a poor signing but seriously, his form at Wolves along with Douglas I do wonder if we just didn't play them to their strengths. Someone else pointed out to me (probably Milky ) Costa isn't a flop he was signed for the Championship and we won promotion

I've said that about Costa. He actually scored and assisted some very important goals in the Championship whilst playing on the right wing. His best form was with Douglas on the left for Wolves. It might be that he comes back in to the fold next season in the Championship. It was the price tag that was his undoing amongst most fans.

I thought Douglas was an unfortunate one. Everything about him screamed "amazing signing" but he just never seemed to get a run of games. The training really didn't agree with him and he constantly broke down. When he did get 3 or 4 games on the spin he looked to be getting better.

 

[NostradEmus]

Interesting Summer for Orta. It's been reported that we have been in for loads of players that Orta wanted but Bielsa turned down. Some of those players have gone on to do really well since.

Off the top of my head we were in for Rodrigo de Paul who is now Atletico Madrids playmaker, Gvardiol who is interesting Spurs for 30 million, Max Cornet who is better and cheaper than James.

With Bielsa not having the final say this summer, we might see just how good Orta is. (Or bad)

 

[Eireleeds1]

Orta out tomorrow evening hopefully whatever way it goes. And make him pay the 20m for augustin out of his own pocket

 

[milkyboy]

If he goes there will be trouble, if he stays it will be double

 

[CreativeMenace]

Many top players would not accept the bonus scheme that we run as they want guaranteed multi millions every season.

That alone would rule out many potential targets.

I like the current bonus scheme, keeps the players honest.

 

[wakeybreakyheart]

I have thought about this seriously....... He's krap sack the poser.

 

[Gessa]

GO

 

[Eireleeds1]

The role of spirting Director or Director of football is the way forward in the English game. Not long ago we had the likes of Big Sam, Warnock, Arry, Big Mick all saying they would never play under of DoF. Thats changed as Conte, Tuchel, Pochetino, Sarri, and all the best coaches in the world use DoF. As Wenger and Fergy left the game. Look at the problems Man Utd have because Fergy never had one so they have gone backwards as only now are they bringing one in to work with Erik….

Orta is a wanted man in La Liga and Seria A. When he came to us he was given the brief of getting loads of players for 30 bob and Radz admitted it was his fault and should never have insisted Orta do that. He has a fantastic knowledge and database of players by positions and characteristics. So whatever type of player required by the coach he will get it, but the coach needs to get the player to do what he wants. It could be said that Firpo, Koch, Llorente, Rodrigo, James, Costa were not used properly or just couldnt get what the coach wanted.

I do know that the industry average is a 30% success rate for signings, but has Orta got that in the last 4 seasons

Even if he hits a success rate with us of 30%, which he hasn’t, it’s not remotely acceptable. Look at it this way, if we stay up, and if he’s given a figure of 100m to strengthen, he’ll piss away at least 70m of it. Anyone find that acceptable. The augustin fiasco would have been a sacking offence in any other club. Problem we have is none of the rest of the board have any football knowledge so they’re totally reliant on orta

 

[NostradEmus]

Genuine question.

So let's get rid of Orta.

Who can we bring in? I genuinely have no clue.

 

[ristac]

Even if he hits a success rate with us of 30%, which he hasn’t, it’s not remotely acceptable. Look at it this way, if we stay up, and if he’s given a figure of 100m to strengthen, he’ll piss away at least 70m of it. Anyone find that acceptable. The augustin fiasco would have been a sacking offence in any other club. Problem we have is none of the rest of the board have any football knowledge so they’re totally reliant on orta

Are you sure he hasn’t got a 30% success rate?

You have to remember players for the championship and players for the PL are different.

 

[ristac]

Genuine question.

So let's get rid of Orta.

Who can we bring in? I genuinely have no clue.

Very good question. We can’t go the route again of giving the manager full responsibility but who’d replace Orta…

What I’m a bit surprised with; we’ve gone from a coach that loves wingers and players out wide to one who prefers to play more narrow.

I might regret it but I think we need to give Orta a preseason without the constraints put on him by the “Bielsa fit” and by fit I don’t mean fitness

 

[NostradEmus]

Very good question. We can’t go the route again of giving the manager full responsibility but who’d replace Orta…

What I’m a bit surprised with; we’ve gone from a coach that loves wingers and players out wide to one who prefers to play more narrow.

I might regret it but I think we need to give Orta a preseason without the constraints put on him by the “Bielsa fit” and by fit I don’t mean fitness

I agree. Some players we have strongly been linked with have gone on to be huge successes. Was it Bielsa who vetoed these or were they financially unattainable? Was it just paper talk?

As for replacing Orta, I think us football fans have a fair idea of managers and players but does anyone know anything about Director of Football markets?

 

[wakeybreakyheart]

I agree. Some players we have strongly been linked with have gone on to be huge successes. Was it Bielsa who vetoed these or were they financially unattainable? Was it just paper talk?

As for replacing Orta, I think us football fans have a fair idea of managers and players but does anyone know anything about Director of Football markets?

Yes i do they are held on the third Wednesday of the month.