What next for Poch?

[Citizen Kane.]

Looks like United are set to appoint Eric ten Hag as their new manager.

Plenty of United fans are distinctly underwhelmed by the news and I see their point. Managing Ajax is one of the easiest gigs in European football and plenty of managers have moved from the Eredivise and struggled on these shores.

Ten Hag's greatest achievement in the game is apparently bottling a semi final against an injury stricken Spurs. I said at the time that for all Ajax's attractive football, their game management was non existent and naive to the point of insult. Nothing I have seen from then since has suggested otherwise. But Ten Hag does have promise and is highly regarded so I guess time will tell.

More pressingly is the question why they spurned Poch, given it is all but certain he will get the boot at the end of the season after bottling the CL again with PSG.

SAF made no secret of his admiration and I think it is beyond debate that Poch achieved more relatively speaking than Ten Hag did, all while playing equally appealing football.

I guess the news this morning got me reflecting on Poch's time with us and his career trajectory since. I wonder what people on here think:

Why did United reject him (if these reports are true - it could well be he took one look at a back line of Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof and Shaw and ran screaming from the interview)?

Where next for Poch?

 

[Dier Hard]

He’d have been foolish going to Utd anyway, that place has become a poisoned chalice and Utd are now essentially the new (old?) Liverpool - clinging on to history to keep them relevant. Nowadays they’re no closer to winning anything than we are despite the fact they have the most expensively assembled squad, they’re an embarrassment. My respect for Poch means I wouldn’t want him going into that cesspit and potentially damaging his career.

As for where he goes at the moment? Stay with PSG if they'll keep him. Win the league this and next season whilst having another crack at the CL and see where it takes him. A job back in Spain could work or maybe Italy down the line. In 4-5 years then look at coming back to the Prem as a more cultured, experienced and hopefully tactically astute version of the one that left us.

 

[The RDBD]

He’d have been foolish going to Utd anyway, that place has become a poisoned chalice and Utd are now essentially the new (old?) Liverpool - clinging on to history to keep them relevant. Nowadays they’re no closer to winning anything than we are despite the fact they have the most expensively assembled squad, they’re an embarrassment. My respect for Poch means I wouldn’t want him going into that cesspit and potentially damaging his career.

For Man Utd, step :

1 : to qualify for the CL every season by virtue of being a PL top 4 incumbent

2 : to actually be in a PL title fight and/or reach a CL final

Pochettino could certainly do step t for them.
For step 2, how many seasons would he have to achieve it ??
At Spurs twas season 2 and 3 for the PL, and season 5 for the CL.

But is the Man Utd entitlement belief from top to bottom so high that
such time scales are unacceptable (more so given the current
heights of Citeh and the Poool) ??

 

[The Huddlefro]

Poch’s situation is an interesting one. It’s been done to death on here about his part in our stagnation towards the end of his tenure and I think it’s fair to say that although his legacy at the club is overwhelmingly positive, he hasn’t answered any of the question marks about him as a manager and coach with his move to PSG.

Speaking of PSG it is perhaps the ultimate poisoned chalice job. Their Sporting Director seems to be much maligned and their strategy of hoarding a load of big name players for clout is remarkably like that of Manchester United anyway. Poch was known from Spurs for root and branch reform of a squad followed by installation of an aggressive pressing style. He was never going to be able to do that at PSG, and was instead forced to skip to step 3 of the journey, which at Spurs came after a couple of years when he’d had the chance the shape the squad and weed out the dissenters through sheer hard work.

Is Ten Hag a better fit for the United role? I honestly don’t know. Apparently he didn’t impress in an interview with us but since then has greatly improved his English and overall communication. He plays good football, no doubt, but the same people who are willing to knock Poch winning anything at PSG will fawn over league titles with Ajax, which is probably more a knock on Poch’s association with Spurs than any rational judgement. United are in big trouble though and I think it’s going to take more than Ten Hag and a bunch of ex players to sort it out, especially when, like at PSG, decisions about the squad seem to be taken with no regard for what actually happens on the pitch. Their obsession with the past is unhealthy, though funnily enough I think Poch’s sentimentality also got the better of him at times. He lacks Conte’s killer instinct and a few trophies at PSG won’t change that.

For Poch, I think the megaclub move came too early. Sure it’s nice to break the trophy duck but it ultimately doesn’t mean anything. I don’t think he’s making a good fist of (or being allowed to by club hierarchy) managing the big personalities at PSG and I think his qualities lie on the training ground, not the political environment of the boardroom. I think the right club in Spain or Italy would suit him better but I don’t know enough about those leagues to say what it is. He needs to build another project somewhere and have it be successful, only then can we say that his redemption as a coach has happened and he has truly improved on his achievements at Spurs. His next move is going to be crucial and I don’t think it should be to a massive club or into international football yet. He needs to get back to his roots and show the footballing world why he was so highly regarded at Spurs.

 

[remembercolinlee]

I think that the state of spurs throughout 2019 (CL apart) and post his sacking went unnoticed by many outside of spurs.

But the complete failures of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Clarke coupled with the mostly failure of Sessegnon has been picked up on.

United need to spend big and maybe it is this that cost him the job.

 

[Dier Hard]

But the complete failures of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Clarke coupled with the mostly failure of Sessegnon has been picked up on.

That was such a crucial window too. Having not signed anyone throughout 18/19 to then add them to a squad that was already on the decline really killed us and we’re only just recovering nearly 3 years later.

I do have a degree of sympathy for Clarke and Sess, Clarke’s had **** luck with his loans (still think there’s a player in there) whilst Sess similar luck but with injuries yet ultimately spending around £130m in a window and not improving a team one iota is probably the real big black mark by Poch’s tenure as Spurs manager, he had a few others but I think that’s what ultimately cost him his job.

 

[paultheplug]

That was such a crucial window too. Having not signed anyone throughout 18/19 to then add them to a squad that was already on the decline really killed us and we’re only just recovering nearly 3 years later.

I do have a degree of sympathy for Clarke and Sess, Clarke’s had **** luck with his loans (still think there’s a player in there) whilst Sess similar luck but with injuries yet ultimately spending around £130m in a window and not improving a team one iota is probably the real big black mark by Poch’s tenure as Spurs manager, he had a few others but I think that’s what ultimately cost him his job.

Could have been worse. Could have bought Pogba, Maguire and Sancho for only £260m.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Watford. I think it's his turn. It's like national service for managers.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

I hear that Bayern might be in the market soon...

 

[The Huddlefro]

That was such a crucial window too. Having not signed anyone throughout 18/19 to then add them to a squad that was already on the decline really killed us and we’re only just recovering nearly 3 years later.

I do have a degree of sympathy for Clarke and Sess, Clarke’s had **** luck with his loans (still think there’s a player in there) whilst Sess similar luck but with injuries yet ultimately spending around £130m in a window and not improving a team one iota is probably the real big black mark by Poch’s tenure as Spurs manager, he had a few others but I think that’s what ultimately cost him his job.

I think it’s the recruitment (not all his fault though he played a part) and the general stagnation of the squad. No new thinking on the training ground too, which was something SAF always did well.

 

[Billy The Spur]

I heard Penited wanted Poch as their first choice but he turned them down, hence why they have gone for Pen Haag. Poch could manage Spurs again one day when the stars align sometime further down the road, Conte is the man for now but he never stays anywhere for too long, and working for ENIC there is a good chance he will get fed up sooner rather than later.

 

[Spurf]

Signing Ndombele is enough to ruin anyones reputation. How is he doing on loan? I don't follow PSG so I have little idea of how Poch has done but I think if he'd done really well I would have heard about it. My uneducated impression is that PSG get through mangers like Chelsea do so perhaps just being there for a while is an achievement of sorts. Who would want to go to United? expectations are through the roof and their performances show scant regard for a basic in football; teamwork! I think Poch would need to change most of that current United line up.

I agree with Huddlefro he needs to go somewhere where he can foster the team togetherness without primadonnas. If we lost Conte then he would have to be on our list but I am hoping that we keep Conte of course and at the moment things look good as he is clearly enjoying the run we are on. Like DH I would prefer Poch to gain more experience before a return to Spurs is on the horizon. Working with a DoF would he like that? Does he do that at PSG?

Employ Harry Redknapp as a high powered chief scout and it might all knit together.

 

[The Huddlefro]

Signing Ndombele is enough to ruin anyones reputation. How is he doing on loan? I don't follow PSG so I have little idea of how Poch has done but I think if he'd done really well I would have heard about it. My uneducated impression is that PSG get through mangers like Chelsea do so perhaps just being there for a while is an achievement of sorts. Who would want to go to United? expectations are through the roof and their performances show scant regard for a basic in football; teamwork! I think Poch would need to change most of that current United line up.

I agree with Huddlefro he needs to go somewhere where he can foster the team togetherness without primadonnas. If we lost Conte then he would have to be on our list but I am hoping that we keep Conte of course and at the moment things look good as he is clearly enjoying the run we are on. Like DH I would prefer Poch to gain more experience before a return to Spurs is on the horizon. Working with a DoF would he like that? Does he do that at PSG?

Employ Harry Redknapp as a high powered chief scout and it might all knit together.

He does at PSG but by all accounts Leonardo is a bit of a ****er and if you look at how he’s built the squad, there’s just no footballing sense to it. Like I said, so many parallels to United.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

He does at PSG but by all accounts Leonardo is a bit of a ****er and if you look at how he’s built the squad, there’s just no footballing sense to it. Like I said, so many parallels to United.

They've tried to replicate the Galacticos at Madrid and it hasn't entirely worked.
Picking up superstars is fine, as long as you tie them together with workhorses and fill the gaps.
They've got the balance wrong and it's hard to balance to side.

 

[The RDBD]

They've tried to replicate the Galacticos at Madrid and it hasn't entirely worked.

Did it even work at Madrid ??

Was the CR7/Bale/Modric era peak Galactico ??
If not, then what was (given the above were part of a
squad that won 4 CL in a 5 year period) ??

 

[The Huddlefro]

They've tried to replicate the Galacticos at Madrid and it hasn't entirely worked.
Picking up superstars is fine, as long as you tie them together with workhorses and fill the gaps.
They've got the balance wrong and it's hard to balance to side.

Bringing in someone like Ramos was just a bit mad. They had quality already at CB and have paid massive wages for someone who suddenly has injury issues. Messi works at his age in a system set up for him, but there’s no balance when you also want to play Neymar and Mbappe as neither of them are notably hard workers, and that’s being kind. They’re also paying Donnarumma a fat wedge despite re-signing Navas last season until 2024, who himself is still a fine keeper.

Go look at their squad, it’s just a mess of players. Ander Herrera, Idrissa Gueye and Di Maria are still knocking about there, even.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Did it even work at Madrid ??

Was the CR7/Bale/Modric era peak Galactico ??
If not, then what was (given the above were part of a
squad that won 4 CL in a 5 year period) ??

There have been two eras: 2000-06 and 2009-2018.
The first was the Figo, Zidane, Ronaldo and the second was Ronaldo II, Modric, Bale, etc.
The former was similar to PSG's front heavy approach and the latter less so, in my opinion.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Go look at their squad, it’s just a mess of players. Ander Herrera, Idrissa Gueye and Di Maria are still knocking about there, even.

I think that Herrera and Gueye are the sort of players that they need, to be honest.
Frees up Neymar, Messi and the like from some of their defensive duties in the league.

 

[Treble]

Did it even work at Madrid ??

Was the CR7/Bale/Modric era peak Galactico ??
If not, then what was (given the above were part of a
squad that won 4 CL in a 5 year period) ??

Tbh I always saw Real's Galacticos was when they were simply trying to buy the biggest names in each position. Zidane, fat Ronaldo, Figo, Beckham, Owen and the likes of Roberto Carlos, Raul, Cassilas who were massive names were already there and they bought the likes of Cannivaro and Robinho a year or two later. It was without doubt the most manufactured squad in the world at that time and one of the worst failures in football history.

 

[The Huddlefro]

I think that Herrera and Gueye are the sort of players that they need, to be honest.
Frees up Neymar, Messi and the like from some of their defensive duties in the league.

Maybe a few years ago but age and injury have taken their toll by now, surely. And either way, ‘water carriers’ are important but you can’t carry 3 players who won’t do the running, not even in Ligue 1.