Off Topic Politics Thread

[Billy Bates]

That's all fair comment Billy, and I sympathise with a lot of that. Personally, I fail to understand how anyone who isn't a millionaire would ever vote Conservative but I would never question their right to do so.

On the Labour Party, or the left generally, I have always thought that there are a significant minority of people who make the perfect the enemy of the good. The Corbynistas would much rather the Tories were reelected than Starmer became PM, just because he isn't as perfect s socialist as they want him to be. That's been the case on the left in this country as long as I can remember, and it is the main reason why the Tories have been in power for the vast majority of my long lifetime, curse them.

There are hints that there is a very unofficial, unspoken, tacit non-aggression pact between the Lib-Dems and Labour forming. If this happens, it would make me very happy indeed.

Thanks for replying. And yep, dont disagree with much of that.

I have been fairly lucky in my career and with money, but wouldn’t quite describe myself as a millionaire (not yet but not far off it either), but I think reading this thread over the last 2 years has made me realise I’m most definitely not a socialist, or perhaps, and this is my confusion, i have read what some like Badger says about it, and wouldn’t want to be that - he comes across as angry and bitter and has no rational position that I can see (in that it is just vitriol to a whole party just because of who they are, without really thinking some of the stuff that has been done hasn’t all been bad - does that make sense???).

My concern is i imagine there is far, far more to socialism than what I believe he portrays, and i feel blurred by his (and others on here to be fair to him) view(s), that i just dont feel informed/know sufficient to know. And id like to know, as it may actually fit what i feel. Then i could likely understand how most on here feel, and join your frustrations…

 

[Billy Bates]

I have always wondered why people would ever want to vote for anyone other than Labour. Theoretically, anyone who relies on an income should be feeling that it is in their interest to do so. I think the Tories get elected because of proposed tax cuts which immediately have an impact on income but a lot of voters are unable to see that a Tory government will get this back by other means. There is also the fact that Tory voters feel that , if they have a job, other people should have one too. the other factor is Law & Order which Tory voters perceive to be a real problem for Labour. This is effectively the limit of their appeal.

For me, the major problem with Labour is the kind of people they seem to attract as both Leaders and PMs. The problem is that they seem to elect really poor leaders. As was mentioned previously, the people they tend to choose who are either a bit eccentric such as Micahel Foot or too slick such as the current incumbant. These days, the fact that many politicians do this for a career and come from a legal background also makes it difficult for the voters to connect with them. If Labour chose people who ordinary working class folk could relate to and not people already on good incomes, I think voters would relate to them. People on low income cannot relate to people like Starmer. This is why Corbyn was massively popular - he was seen as ordinary. There is no reason why Laabour should not be in power for long periods - the fact that they don't is largely due to the fact is due to their MPs being so different to their members and also to the voters.

Ian, see i get confused with some of this.

So, anyone who has a job thinks others should have one too - see id largely agree with this, whilst recognising that some people literally cant have one for valid reasons. yet some people (most of my dads side of the family), are scummy bastards who wont ever work a day in their life and always want to rely on benefits. Trouble is, they cause more issues for the people who really need it, but we do need to find a valid and equitable manner in which to weed out those bastards i refer to.

Also, what does the term - ordinary working class folk actually mean? i think backl to my childhood and think you mean blue collar against whiter collar workers, and wondered if that is what you mean. To me, everyone who works is working folk!

 

[Billy Bates]

This is a very good post

I vote according to my values and if anyone from a party I could support ever gets in around here then I’ll join the party and try and promote those values

Thank you for replying - i always thought you had me on ignore.

So, would you can as onb behalf of them? See i dont think i could ever get that involved in politics, if that was what you meant.

Im at the point now where I’m slightly less concerned for myself, and am thinking about the futures of my children, and that is far harder as it is such a long term outlook.

 

[StJabbo1]

I'm doing my best to promote the Electoral Reform Society https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/ along with that tactical voting and hoping the opposition parties work together to remove the current incompetent bunch of corrupt sycophants led by a proven liar.

Perhaps more controversial was my breakfast, lightly toasted brown bread smeared with marmite topped with bacon bits and mushrooms, a generous layer of strong brie melted through then a fried egg on top and a good blob of HP sauce on the plate. Orange juice and fresh coffee alongside.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I'm doing my best to promote the Electoral Reform Society https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/ along with that tactical voting and hoping the opposition parties work together to remove the current incompetent bunch of corrupt sycophants led by a proven liar.

Perhaps more controversial was my breakfast, lightly toasted brown bread smeared with marmite topped with bacon bits and mushrooms, a generous layer of strong brie melted through then a fried egg on top and a good blob of HP sauce on the plate. Orange juice and fresh coffee alongside.

I don’t think controversial is a strong enough word for that!

Going by the food I assume the coffee and juice are in the same cup!

 

[StJabbo1]

I don’t think controversial is a strong enough word for that!

Going by the food I assume the coffee and juice are in the same cup!

Certainly not! Whatever gave you that impression?

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Thank you for replying - i always thought you had me on ignore.

So, would you can as onb behalf of them? See i dont think i could ever get that involved in politics, if that was what you meant.

Im at the point now where I’m slightly less concerned for myself, and am thinking about the futures of my children, and that is far harder as it is such a long term outlook.

I’m not a canvasser, more a campaigner I think, whatever that means

My values make it relatively easy for me to know who I really want to vote for as I know the sort of country I want me, my kids, my friends etc to live in

I also know that the current government doesn’t share these values

 

[shoot_spiderman]

Certainly not! Whatever gave you that impression?

Well you’ve proved you’re bonkers I just don’t know where it stops!?

Bacon and mushrooms fried in butter and garlic is god food for me, with none of the additions you mention

 

[StJabbo1]

Well you’ve proved you’re bonkers I just don’t know where it stops!?

Bacon and mushrooms fried in butter and garlic is god food for me, with none of the additions you mention

I'll go along with that but it needs the toast, marmite and brie plus hash browns or potato croquettes possibly tomatoes and black pudding.

As for being bonkers, I've been a Saints supporter for more than 60 years and can confirm it does help.

 

[berlinersaint]

I'm doing my best to promote the Electoral Reform Society https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/ along with that tactical voting and hoping the opposition parties work together to remove the current incompetent bunch of corrupt sycophants led by a proven liar.

Perhaps more controversial was my breakfast, lightly toasted brown bread smeared with marmite topped with bacon bits and mushrooms, a generous layer of strong brie melted through then a fried egg on top and a good blob of HP sauce on the plate. Orange juice and fresh coffee alongside.

What we used to call Toast Hawaii ( Ham and pineaple). Yeah, well Into that, use what you,ve and Put it on toast

 

[shoot_spiderman]

I'll go along with that but it needs the toast, marmite and brie plus hash browns or potato croquettes possibly tomatoes and black pudding.

As for being bonkers, I've been a Saints supporter for more than 60 years and can confirm it does help.

Can’t argue with that

 

[StJabbo1]

I'll go along with that but it needs the toast, marmite and brie plus hash browns or potato croquettes possibly tomatoes and black pudding.

As for being bonkers, I've been a Saints supporter for more than 60 years and can confirm it does help.

Forgot the baked beans. Needed because beans beans are good for your heart.

 

[StJabbo1]

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[Archers Road]

I'm doing my best to promote the Electoral Reform Society https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/ along with that tactical voting and hoping the opposition parties work together to remove the current incompetent bunch of corrupt sycophants led by a proven liar.

Perhaps more controversial was my breakfast, lightly toasted brown bread smeared with marmite topped with bacon bits and mushrooms, a generous layer of strong brie melted through then a fried egg on top and a good blob of HP sauce on the plate. Orange juice and fresh coffee alongside.

Marmite is pretty controversial in our house. All I have to do to terrify my French friend, is wave the jar at her. It’s like cryptonite for French people, apparently.

 

[Gregm1988]

Marmite is pretty controversial in our house. All I have to do to terrify my French friend, is wave the jar at her. It’s like cryptonite for French people, apparently.

I wonder how many continental Europeans receive it well. Pretty sure Italians (in general) have a similar reaction to the French

 

[Bob's mate]

Labour are out of touch with the general population. They are seen as the party of woke (for want of a better word) and not in a good way, the silent majority are fed up of being told what they can say and do. Labour and the Lib Dems are leading the way and when they struggle to even describe what a woman is they are seen as ridiculous to most people.

This is such an important issue for many women who have always voted for Labour but now find themselves politically homeless. Keir Starmer strives for Labour to be the 'Inclusive' party but has not thought through the damaging effect his stance for GRA reform will have on women and girls.

Over the past couple of years, grassroots women's movements have been growing and coming together to make a stand for the rights of women and girls. Maintaining single sex spaces is so important for women's sport, women's prisons, women's refuges and rape crisis centres. It's not surprising that since last week's launch of the 'Respect my Sex if you want my X' campaign for the local elections, it has been trending on twitter (along with JK Rowling of course)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...nt-female-movement-Suffragettes.html#comments

Women's groups in England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland are mobilising for the local elections in May because it's easy to forget just how much control is under local authority : from single sex services such as changing rooms in sports centres and toilet facilities in parks, to the guidance given to schools about sex education and how they respond to children who are gender-questioning. Local services touch everybody's lives — and it's local authorities making decisions which lead to funding being taken away from women's refuges and rape crisis centres, for example, if they don't open up their services to biological males who identify as women.

Politicians can't keep stumbling over the question, 'Can women have a penis?'

 

[San Tejón]

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[Bob's mate]

And then you move onto how a lot of their positions seem to being forced upon them by a distinct shouty minority. If you listened to a recent clip where Starmer was asked to define a woman and if a woman could have a penis you will hear the blustering of a man who clearly doesn’t believe the line he is forced to take. He just doesn’t.

Growing numbers of women are trying to combat the 'shouty minority' and the Stonewall grift - Women Uniting, Sex Matters and Women's Rights Network (WRN) to name a just few. These women are meeting, writing to MPs and local authorities, protesting outside Government institutions, leafleting and yes, getting arrested for tying ribbons to lamp-posts (Marion Millar, Scotland)

It's tough to get your voice heard though when so many big institutions- the Police, NHS, most universities and until recently the BBC are captured by Stonewall but more media coverage from the Mail, Times and Telegraph in support of women, is bringing female voices to the fore. I'm guessing Keir Starmer only reads the Guardian these days.

 

[Gregm1988]

Growing numbers of women are trying to combat the 'shouty minority' and the Stonewall grift - Women Uniting, Sex Matters and Women's Rights Network (WRN) to name a just few. These women are meeting, writing to MPs and local authorities, protesting outside Government institutions, leafleting and yes, getting arrested for tying ribbons to lamp-posts (Marion Millar, Scotland)

It's tough to get your voice heard though when so many big institutions- the Police, NHS, most universities and until recently the BBC are captured by Stonewall but more media coverage from the Mail, Times and Telegraph in support of women, is bringing female voices to the fore. I'm guessing Keir Starmer only reads the Guardian these days.

Out of interest, what do you mean by the “Stonewall Grift”

I sometimes take a glance a Pink News to see what the current perspective is. It seems to be utterly dominated by Transgender issues. Most of the other stuff is all seemingly being sidelined. Is that at least partly what you mean ?

 

[StJabbo1]

Marmite is pretty controversial in our house. All I have to do to terrify my French friend, is wave the jar at her. It’s like cryptonite for French people, apparently.

I wonder how many continental Europeans receive it well. Pretty sure Italians (in general) have a similar reaction to the French

If I remember correctly there are a few on here that gag at the mention of marmite.