Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Uber_Hoop]

Actually, Atkins's report seems remarkably fair. Right wing politician gets 1.6% of the Ukrainian electoral vote in 2019. Jewish candidate gets over 70%. And Russia is calling Ukraine a Nazi dominated state...

Hitchens is remarkably pro Russia, constantly telling anyone who will listen that the real threat is China. But that doesn't wash when he's speaking to Ukrainians.

If you read his Twitter account you would see he’s not pro-Russia. Many making that accusation. Not that I have any great desire to defend him - he can do that pretty well himself.

(I think his position is 1 Nazi in an organisation is 1 Nazi too many, which I think most of us would have sympathy with.)

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

If you read his Twitter account you would see he’s not pro-Russia. Many making that accusation. Not that I have any great desire to defend him - he can do that pretty well himself.

(I think his position is 1 Nazi in an organisation is 1 Nazi too many, which I think most of us would have sympathy with.)

The problem is there will be self-appointed Nazi's in every country in Europe, including in the military, and including the UK where it is known right wing extremism is on the rise. Putin could almost certainly find evidence of this in Poland's military, Finland, Estonia etc.

Since the right wing in Ukraine only got 1.6% of the national vote in 2019 and this was a diminishing percentage anyway, it seems spurious for Putin and Hitchens to claim the Nazi problem is acute in Ukraine. This is what the BBC are saying and they are surely correct.

 

[BobbyD]

The problem is there will be self-appointed Nazi's in every country in Europe, including in the military, and including the UK where it is known right wing extremism is on the rise. Putin could almost certainly find evidence of this in Poland's military, Finland, Estonia etc.

Since the right wing in Ukraine only got 1.6% of the national vote in 2019 and this was a diminishing percentage anyway, it seems spurious for Putin and Hitchens to claim the Nazi problem is acute in Ukraine. This is what the BBC are saying and they are surely correct.

I actually agree with this. You can't legislate for the minority being the kind that you do not want.

The only thing i would add is these labels get lobbed at anyone like the workshy being benefits cheats or blm being a bunch of left political leaning violent resistance fighters etc.

Its always the the minority who is the loudest and normally get politicised

 

[Staines R's]

The problem is there will be self-appointed Nazi's in every country in Europe, including in the military, and including the UK where it is known right wing extremism is on the rise. Putin could almost certainly find evidence of this in Poland's military, Finland, Estonia etc.

Since the right wing in Ukraine only got 1.6% of the national vote in 2019 and this was a diminishing percentage anyway, it seems spurious for Putin and Hitchens to claim the Nazi problem is acute in Ukraine. This is what the BBC are saying and they are surely correct.

Who funds the Ukrainian Right wing militias ?

 

[sb_73]

Who funds the Ukrainian Right wing militias ?

Is it George Soros?

How many guesses do I get?

 

[Steelmonkey]

Who funds the Ukrainian Right wing militias ?

Seeing as they have been absorbed by the Ukranian Military system, it'll be the Ukranian Government...

 

[Staines R's]

Seeing as they have been absorbed by the Ukranian Military system, it'll be the Ukranian Government...

Hmmmm you might be on to something there. Adding to that they were funded by others in the Ukrainian government BEFORE they became mainstream military.

I mean if it was found that Michael Gove was funding Combat 18, I’m sure that wouldn’t be a problem, would it ?

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

Who funds the Ukrainian Right wing militias ?

As Steel says, the members of the militias have been taken into the Ukranian state army.

Here's a question for you, Stainsey. Why and when did the right wing militias come to the fore?

Clue - Crimea, by Russia, 2014, invasion of

 

[Staines R's]

As Steel says, the members of the militias have been taken into the Ukranian state army.

Here's a question for you, Stainsey. Why and when did the right wing militias come to the fore?

Clue - Crimea, by Russia, 2014, invasion of

And as I replied to Steels (the part you conveniently missed), they were funded by high up meme bets of the Ukrainian Government BEFORE they became part of the Ukrainian army……but of course, you knew that.

You’re second part is irrelevant. They and their scumbag friends, didn’t suddenly become NS because of that one event….

 

[Steelmonkey]

Here's a question for you, Stainsey. Why and when did the right wing militias come to the fore?

Clue - Crimea, by Russia, 2014, invasion of

You think Neo-Nazis only appeared because of the Russians invasion of Crimea? They were in Ukrainian politics long before that - the Azov Battalion were founded because of the invasion, but there were plenty of far right parties and militias floating around before that.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

And as I replied to Steels (the part you conveniently missed), they were funded by high up meme bets of the Ukrainian Government BEFORE they became part of the Ukrainian army……but of course, you knew that.

You’re second part is irrelevant. They and their scumbag friends, didn’t suddenly become NS because of that one event….

Militias were an increasingly irrelevant minority in Ukraine until Russia walked in and illegally claimed Crimea. At that time, the Ukranian Army was small and underequipped. Azov stepped into the breach and fought the invaders. I dare say Russia's invasion did create more nationalists in Ukraine. That's human nature. Russia provoked this whole issue.

 

[Steelmonkey]

A quick google....

Social-National Assembly

The Social-National Assembly (SNA) was an assemblage of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi radical organizations and groups founded in 2008 that share the social-national ideology and agree upon building a social-national state in Ukraine. It is located on the far right of the Ukrainian politics and built around the "Patriot of Ukraine". In late November 2013, both the S.N.A. and the "Patriot of Ukraine" entered in an association with several other Ukrainian far-right groups which led to the formation of the Right Sector.[1] The S.N.A. is also reported to be close to Svoboda, and Yuriy Zbitnyev, the leader of the nationalist political party "Nova Syla" (New Force).[2][3] The S.N.A.'s activities are largely Kyiv-based.[1]

Social-National Assembly
Соціал-Національна Асамблея

You must log in or register to see images

Abbreviation SNA
Founded 2008
Dissolved 2015
Headquarters Kyiv
Paramilitary wing Patriot of Ukraine
Ideology Ukrainian nationalism
Ultranationalism
Neo-Nazism
Political position Far-right
Website
snaua.info

HistoryEdit
2000sEdit
The S.N.A. was founded in 2008 and maintained relations with the wider social-nationalist movement in Ukraine.[4] In the late 2000s, Ukrainian president Victor Yushchenko and the Our Ukraine bloc bolstered the S.N.A. and other far-right groups by supporting an explicitly nationalist view of Ukrainian history.[5] Following the 2009 death of Maksym Chaika, an S.N.A member who was killed in a fight with antifascists in Odessa, Yushchenko supported the far-right interpretation of Chaika's death, describing him and others as heroes and victims driven to violence for a just cause.[5]

In 2010, the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union reported on attacks by the S.N.A and "Patriot of Ukraine" against Vietnamese and other foreign market stalls in Vasylkiv. Most attacks were carried out by youth and targeted Vietnamese, Uzbeks and Gypsies.[6] According to the S.N.A website, they drove foreigners from the market within two weeks and replaced them with Ukrainians. The S.N.A states that some of their victims were hospitalized.[7] Later that year, Ukrainian authorities shut down an S.N.A music festival near Kyiv that promoted neo-Nazism and chauvinism among Ukrainian youth. The music glorified the skinhead movement, Nazi aesthetics and the harassment of minorities.[6]


Sound like a nice bunch of fellows....

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

You think Neo-Nazis only appeared because of the Russians invasion of Crimea? They were in Ukrainian politics long before that - the Azov Battalion were founded because of the invasion, but there were plenty of far right parties and militias floating around before that.

There are far right parties across Europe. Look at Hungary. In fact look at who is the main challenger to Macron in France. Marine Le Pen

 

[Staines R's]

Militias were an increasingly irrelevant minority in Ukraine until Russia walked in and illegally claimed Crimea. At that time, the Ukranian Army was small and underequipped. Azov stepped into the breach and fought the invaders. I dare say Russia's invasion did create more nationalists in Ukraine. That's human nature. Russia provoked this whole issue.

That makes it ok then and they are still ‘the good guys’…right oh

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

A quick google....

Social-National Assembly

The Social-National Assembly (SNA) was an assemblage of the ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi radical organizations and groups founded in 2008 that share the social-national ideology and agree upon building a social-national state in Ukraine. It is located on the far right of the Ukrainian politics and built around the "Patriot of Ukraine". In late November 2013, both the S.N.A. and the "Patriot of Ukraine" entered in an association with several other Ukrainian far-right groups which led to the formation of the Right Sector.[1] The S.N.A. is also reported to be close to Svoboda, and Yuriy Zbitnyev, the leader of the nationalist political party "Nova Syla" (New Force).[2][3] The S.N.A.'s activities are largely Kyiv-based.[1]

Social-National Assembly
Соціал-Національна Асамблея

You must log in or register to see images

Abbreviation SNA
Founded 2008
Dissolved 2015
Headquarters Kyiv
Paramilitary wing Patriot of Ukraine
Ideology Ukrainian nationalism
Ultranationalism
Neo-Nazism
Political position Far-right
Website
snaua.info

HistoryEdit
2000sEdit
The S.N.A. was founded in 2008 and maintained relations with the wider social-nationalist movement in Ukraine.[4] In the late 2000s, Ukrainian president Victor Yushchenko and the Our Ukraine bloc bolstered the S.N.A. and other far-right groups by supporting an explicitly nationalist view of Ukrainian history.[5] Following the 2009 death of Maksym Chaika, an S.N.A member who was killed in a fight with antifascists in Odessa, Yushchenko supported the far-right interpretation of Chaika's death, describing him and others as heroes and victims driven to violence for a just cause.[5]

In 2010, the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union reported on attacks by the S.N.A and "Patriot of Ukraine" against Vietnamese and other foreign market stalls in Vasylkiv. Most attacks were carried out by youth and targeted Vietnamese, Uzbeks and Gypsies.[6] According to the S.N.A website, they drove foreigners from the market within two weeks and replaced them with Ukrainians. The S.N.A states that some of their victims were hospitalized.[7] Later that year, Ukrainian authorities shut down an S.N.A music festival near Kyiv that promoted neo-Nazism and chauvinism among Ukrainian youth. The music glorified the skinhead movement, Nazi aesthetics and the harassment of minorities.[6]


Sound like a nice bunch of fellows....

All this shows is that there was a small minority of extreme right wing in Ukraine. Russia poured on petrol by taking Crimea.

 

[Steelmonkey]

There are far right parties across Europe. Look at Hungary. In fact look at who is the main challenger to Macron in France. Marine Le Pen

I'm not denying that. You said right wing militias only came to the fore in Ukraine after the annexation of Crimea, and that is incorrect.

 

[Staines R's]

There are far right parties across Europe. Look at Hungary. In fact look at who is the main challenger to Macron in France. Marine Le Pen

The whole of Eastern Europe has a massive problem with Nazi ideology…..and to deny that fact is burying your head in the sand.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I'm not denying that. You said right wing militias only came to the fore in Ukraine after the annexation of Crimea, and that is incorrect.

I didn't say they didn't exist before 2014. I said they came to the fore. They suddenly became important to Ukranian's battle against Russian hostilities

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

The whole of Eastern Europe has a massive problem with Nazi ideology…..and to deny that fact is burying your head in the sand.

Why restrict it to "Eastern" Europe? There is a rise in Germany, France and the UK. But mostly it's negligible politically. France may be the exception

 

[Staines R's]

Why restrict it to "Eastern" Europe? There is a rise in Germany, France and the UK. But mostly it's negligible politically. France may be the exception

The FN in France have watered down their previous policies to become more appealing to the French populace.

And while not restricting my point to purely Eastern Europe…..that area of the world (including Russia) does have a massive problem with Extreme Right Wing Nationalism…..and that is a fact.
The fact that these states accept and often assist in the adulation of former fascist heroes, like Stepan Bandera, is appalling, in my view.