I'd add that I actually think it's you being simplistic with the way you debate this stuff.
Off Topic The Politics Thread
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I'd add that I actually think it's you being simplistic with the way you debate this stuff.
I know you’re not looking for a row….and I’m not either.
I respect your views, even though I might not agree
If you say so Goldie. I guess we have to pick a side in any conflict, eh ? Good guys and bad guys
Again, that’s your right to think that.
But then again I’m not the one picking sides
In some conflicts, yes, Stainsey. When Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Iraq into Kuwait. Serbia's attempted genocide of Muslims. Russia's invasion of Ukraine...
America in Vietnam ?
America in Afghanistan ?
Can we look at all conflicts in a simplistic way ? Or are some more simplistic than others ?
What are the rules I need to follow ?
It’s about this time in any argument that I like a quick burst of the Mexican national anthem.
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There are some conflicts where it is easy to see the wrongdoer and the victim, and so pick a side.
Others, like Vietnam, and the Iran/Iraq war, make it difficult for the impartial observer
So you mention Kuwait/Iraq as good/evil ?
So then are we in the West not evil by backing the evil side when attacking his own people (in fact supplying chemicals that were to be used in weapons) before he invaded Kuwait.
At what point did he become the bad guy and not the good guy who deserved our backing ?
Oh it’s all so simple……
I've said, and I'll repeat, that there are some conflicts where it is easy to see a perpetrator and a victim. The classic is Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939.
What you are doing is pointing to complicated international situations like pre Kuwait invasion Iraq, and you seem to be implying that it's impossible ever to pick a side on any inter country conflict.
Nothing is ever black and white in international relations and disputes. But that does not make it impossible to pick sides where one country is an obvious perpetrator, as in Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine.
With respect you were the one who used Kuwait/Iraq as an example of good guys v bad guys. I, quite rightly in my opinion, am using YOUR example to show it’s never that simple.
So again…..are we in the West bad guys for backing Iraq and selling its regime chemicals to attack its own people ?
And again, when in your opinion did Sadaam and his regime become the ‘bad guys’ ?
I said the Iran/Iraq war made it difficult for the impartial observer to pick a side. The whole history of Iraq, the US and UK's relationship with it, indeed much of the Middle East is highly complicated. I've never said otherwise. Nor am I defending the West's involvement, although Bush (senior) was right to intercede on behalf of Kuwait in my view.
I'm assuming you would have had no trouble in picking a side when Germany invaded Poland. How different is Russian's invasion of Ukraine?
Go back to your post #74805……you actually said, in answer to my previous post, that it was easy to pick sides in certain conflicts……but now you’re saying it’s highly complicated and bringing up the Iran/Iraq war (which was VERY complicated)
Which is it mate ? I still ascertain that no conflict in human history can ever be looked at as you do…..sometime it seems.
This is what I said:
"I've said, and I'll repeat, that there are some conflicts where it is easy to see a perpetrator and a victim. The classic is Germany's invasion of Poland in 1939.
What you are doing is pointing to complicated international situations like pre Kuwait invasion Iraq, and you seem to be implying that it's impossible ever to pick a side on any inter country conflict."
Now will you answer my question?:
"I'm assuming you would have had no trouble in picking a side when Germany invaded Poland. How different is Russian's invasion of Ukraine?"
As a PS, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was clear. A large and militarily powerful country invading a smaller one simply to gain oil fields. So not difficult to side with Kuwait, irrespective of the history of Iraq and relations with the West
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Youre just avoiding my original question with another question Goldie…and you know it. It’s there in black and white
I added it as a PS, Stainsey
"As a PS, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was clear. A large and militarily powerful country invading a smaller one simply to gain oil fields. So not difficult to side with Kuwait, irrespective of the history of Iraq and relations with the West."
And to your question about Germany/Poland…I really don’t know as it I haven’t looked at the politics of it all. But of course it started way beyond the Invasion of a Poland I would say
So were we ‘bad’ for backing the ‘bad’ guys, while they were being ‘bad’ to their own people and killing them…..or were they ‘good’ then and only turned ‘bad’ when attacking another nation ?