Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%
  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%

  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
If anyone is interested in looking into 'the Labour question' in more depth, I thoroughly recommend 'Broken Heartlands' by Sebastian Payne. Payne (an FT journalist by day) travels through ten red wall constituencies, interviewing people across the community in those ten constituencies, seeking to understand why people made the switch from red to blue. At times it almost felt like a Bill Bryson travel book with the politics thrown in on the side. I listened to it on Audible and each chapter (one of the ten constituencies) makes for a good 'episode' in podcast parlance.

His conclusion is that, naturally, multiple factors led to the 2019 result, including the unpopularity of Corbyn, the popularity of Boris, the clear vs unclear positions on Brexit. Payne goes beyond these shorter-term factors, however, and looks at the social and economic trends across the last two decades in these seats, including the changing nature of work, how public services have changed, and how communities come together in different ways. The chapter in Grimsby stands out as a particularly interesting read/listen, as did the trips to Sedgefield and Blyth.

As for winning next time, there is clearly some low hanging fruit for Labour - not having Corbyn as leader, Brexit being a much lesser issue by 2024, Boris losing at least some of his star power. Bigger challenges remain still. They need to develop a coherent position on how to revitalise towns to break back out beyond their support in cities. Lisa Nandy is a smart and decent MP who is leading their work on this and I'm interested to see what she comes up with.

Excellent analysis. Starmer is clearly pushing the party in the right direction, but from a very bad place. He will hope Brexit voters will forget his "People's referendum" support in the same way that Johnson will hope they forget parties. There's still a general perception that Labour regards patriotism like a bad smell, with no place in a global outlook. Working class people have to believe Labour is on their side, and of course, that Boris's promises on leveling up had no worth.
 
Excellent analysis. Starmer is clearly pushing the party in the right direction, but from a very bad place. He will hope Brexit voters will forget his "People's referendum" support in the same way that Johnson will hope they forget parties. There's still a general perception that Labour regards patriotism like a bad smell, with no place in a global outlook. Working class people have to believe Labour is on their side, and of course, that Boris's promises on leveling up had no worth.

I think Starmer understands that problem with patriotism - there is a reason Starmer now has a bunch of flags behind him whenever he gives a speech. Not enough, I know, but understanding (and agreeing with) the diagnosis of the problem is a good first step for them. A lot really hinges on if people really feel any difference as a result of 'levelling up' by 2024.
 
After all Johnson's tough talk on Ukraine last week, why were the sanctions he announced yesterday so pathetic? Anything to do with the fact that many of the individuals who should have been sanctioned are Tory party donors?
 
After all Johnson's tough talk on Ukraine last week, why were the sanctions he announced yesterday so pathetic? Anything to do with the fact that many of the individuals who should have been sanctioned are Tory party donors?

If he goes full-sanction now, there's no deterrent for Russia not to invade the whole of Ukraine. This is a shot across the bows, and if/when Putin goes further, expect much more severe sanctions
 
Putin knows a lot more are down the line if he continues his aggression. If the oligarchs face enough grief from Western democracies after a Ukraine invasion, there's at least a chance that Putin's grip on power may weaken.

Times reported some discontent among the Russian army already - and the oligarchs will surely be pissed off at losing Nord 2.
 
Wasnt a piss take question goldy, im intrigued as to what people find themselves patriotic about.

I realised that, Bob. But it's the Left/woke warriors way to knock this country, which is fine if they provide a substantial list of countries that are more worthy . If they can't, then for all its imperfections, this country is, with others with similar values, out in front.
 
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I realised that, Bob. But it's the Left/woke warriors way to knock this country, which is fine if they provide a substantial list of countries that are more worthy . If they can't, then for all its imperfections, this country is, with others with similar values, out in front.
:emoticon-0137-clapp:emoticon-0137-clapp:emoticon-0137-clapp
 
I realised that, Bob. But it's the Left/woke warriors way to knock this country, which is fine if they provide a substantial list of countries that are more worthy . If they can't, then for all its imperfections, this country is, with others with similar values, out in front.
More worthy of what? Surely patriotism can only be applied to your chosen country or that of origin. Im always looking for an explanation of patriotism, not out of ignorance but rather intrigue, as i often find myself wondering what it actually means to someone.
 
More worthy of what? Surely patriotism can only be applied to your chosen country or that of origin. Im always looking for an explanation of patriotism, not out of ignorance but rather intrigue, as i often find myself wondering what it actually means to someone.

I've given you my definition. Worthy as, for example, you respect people's religion and sexuality and don't engage in ethnic cleansing or throw gay people off buildings. You see the difference.
 
I've given you my definition. Worthy as, for example, you respect people's religion and sexuality and don't engage in ethnic cleansing or throw gay people off buildings. You see the difference.
Ah right. I suppose a lot of people will have different definitions of what being patriotic means to themselves. To me, what youve said is just a difference between right and wrong. I certainly dont belittle your comments though.
 
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It's war now then ! Putin announced 'special military operation ' on Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odessa and other cities across Ukraine. Reports Russian troops have landed in Mariupol and Odessa from the Black Sea. Ukrainian President declared martial law. Grim times ahead I fear, can only hope it concludes quickly without too much bloodshed, but I don't hold out much hope of that !