Thomas Frank & Johan Lange (& Fabio Paratici) Watch

[BobbyD]

I'm as anti ENIC as anyone on here but my understanding of the £400m leeway is that it only exists in theory.

I.e. we'd need to loan that money from somewhere and would then owe it to someone. The debt burden of that loan won't break FFP rules, but we'd still be £400m in debt.

Mafia clubs like Chelsea and City circumvent this issue by loaning the money to themselves from themselves via various shell companies and dodgy sponsorship deals so that they end up not owing anyone anything and also not breaking FFP. That's one option.

The other option is to enjoy so much on field success that natural (and legal) revenue streams begin to pay off chunks of that debt. We tried this model and failed. Liverpool tried and succeeded.

The benefit of the second option is that success is earned and revenue is above board. The major flaw in it is how unlikely it is to work over the long term. I.e. for Pool to continue doing what they've done well for the past 2-3 years and still compete with the mafia clubs, they'll need to win the PL or CL more or less every season until the Mansours and Abramovich die. The chances of that happening are very slim.

So the only real way to make Option 2 sustainable is to create income flows that are not dependent on endless footballing success. Property, tourism, housing, commerce etc. are just a few areas that ENIC have invested in over the years. These are theoretically long-term revenues that allow for a club to compete financially without having to win a major trophy every single season.

So I get the logic of how ENIC operate and have often said that Levy is a business genius. But as a sportsman? Complete buffoon. Poor recruitment, far too many poor managerial choices, a series of decisions that tarnished the club's image, thinking he had the nous to build a business empire and take care of footballing matters from 2018 to the hiring of Paratici etc.
The list is a long and pretty damning one. I've often said if he left footballing matters to people who understand the game, we'd be in a much better place.

The way i see it (provided the article on the FFP is correct), the FFP thing is you cannot spend more than you can make. So provided the 400m FFP is true, it means you had that money there.

However, the 400m revenue, rather than being spent on funding new players has been spent on things like the stadium (in the earlier years), or a new ground or a some new land. this is why you still have 400m FFP (yes 400m is hypothetical, who knows what the real number is) as this sort of spending does not count towards FFP but don't actually have the 400m cash.

Billy is correct from what i can tell

 

[KingHotspur]

They have not 'trousered' a single penny of profits though. All has been reinvested so the £400m that we could theoretically spend is not available. There is no other business model which is better other than a criminal or a dodgy foreign government laundering money through the club.

How much does Levy earn a year? Where does that money come from?

 

[PowerSpurs]

How much does Levy earn a year? Where does that money come from?

Like any Director he receives a salary and bonus based on performance. Why do you ask? By definition those payments are a cost to the company and so not part of the profits.

 

[KingHotspur]

Like any Director he receives a salary and bonus based on performance. Why do you ask? By definition those payments are a cost to the company and so not part of the profits.

He’s the highest paid director in the league isn’t he?

 

[BobbyD]

Like any Director he receives a salary and bonus based on performance. Why do you ask? By definition those payments are a cost to the company and so not part of the profits.

wow, that's a first i've heard for a defence.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

He’s the highest paid director in the league isn’t he?

Even if he took about £10m a season it wouldn't make much difference to our transfers.

I don't really get this approach or the criticism of the stadium and the other projects.
We've not done the business in either transfers or youth team management.
That needs to get sorted somehow and it's not going to change anything if we ignore the stadium.
The whole system needs an overhaul, but the other stuff has little or nothing to do with it.

 

[Spurlock]

Even if he took about £10m a season it wouldn't make much difference to our transfers.

I don't really get this approach or the criticism of the stadium and the other projects.
We've not done the business in either transfers or youth team management.
That needs to get sorted somehow and it's not going to change anything if we ignore the stadium.
The whole system needs an overhaul, but the other stuff has little or nothing to do with it.

I think people get pissed off at the fact that every project gets tackled in the right manner but the football one. They are all ENICs projects..our club is one of their projects. They happily blew their own arses off to get their Football stadium project done and dusted at any cost(for example)…Hotels…bam…they go up, no expenses spared etc etc.

Some of us want them to show the same zest for the football team project or **** off and let someone else show that zest for the football team.
It’s quite simple I think…I and I reckon the majority of other fans didn’t start supporting Spurs to see how well the owners do in their other projects. I couldn’t give a **** about them yet these other projects are always needing to be factored in for whenever we want to progress the first team…ENIC are always crying poverty when it comes to the football team so I guess people get pissed off when they see ENIC play their hand with the other projects and I guess that’s how these other projects have something to do with the football side.

We all know Levy took his eye off the team whilst balls deep in the stadium build…that’s why these other projects are important distractions and rightfully mentioned and vilified.

It’s their whole stinking demeanour and attitude when it comes to improving the team compared to their hunger and drive for their other ****ing projects.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I think people get pissed off at the fact that every project gets tackled in the right manner but the football one. They are all ENICs projects..our club is one of their projects. They happily blew their own arses off to get their Football stadium project done and dusted at any cost(for example)…Hotels…bam…they go up, no expenses spared etc etc.

Some of us want them to show the same zest for the football team project or **** off and let someone else show that zest for the football team.
It’s quite simple I think…I and I reckon the majority of other fans didn’t start supporting Spurs to see how well the owners do in their other projects. I couldn’t give a **** about them yet these other projects are always needing to be factored in for whenever we want to progress the first team…ENIC are always crying poverty when it comes to the football team so I guess people get pissed off when they see ENIC play their hand with the other projects and I guess that’s how these other projects have something to do with the football side.

We all know Levy took his eye off the team whilst balls deep in the stadium build…that’s why these other projects are important distractions and rightfully mentioned and vilified.

It’s their whole stinking demeanour and attitude when it comes to improving the team compared to their hunger and drive for their other ****ing projects.

They're not spending money on those projects, though. They pay for themselves.
The value of the club increases every time they do any of it, so they can't really miss out.
That's not remotely true in the case of an Ndombele, for example.

Our transfer spending has increased since the move to the new place.
The increased revenue has seen more money being spent on players, for the most part.
The pandemic has clearly ****ed that up, though.
Clubs that are still massively spending are either enormous or backed by crooks.

 

[Diego]

They're not spending money on those projects, though. They pay for themselves.
The value of the club increases every time they do any of it, so they can't really miss out.
That's not remotely true in the case of an Ndombele, for example.

Our transfer spending has increased since the move to the new place.
The increased revenue has seen more money being spent on players, for the most part.
The pandemic has clearly ****ed that up, though.
Clubs that are still massively spending are either enormous or backed by crooks.

I have asked this before and really can't remember getting an answer so here goes.

Who actually owns the new stadium and all the surrounding projects (hotels, houses, golf course etc), ENIC or THFC?

Take the stadium for example, do THFC get all the profits from other activities such as NFL or Boxing, do THFC get all the profits from the surrounding buildings or is that shared?


EDIT........apologies to anyone who did answer, i genuinely don't remember seeing one.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I have asked this before and really can't remember getting an answer so here goes.

Who actually owns the new stadium and all the surrounding projects (hotels, houses, golf course etc), ENIC or THFC?

Take the stadium for example, do THFC get all the profits from other activities such as NFL or Boxing, do THFC get all the profits from the surrounding buildings or is that shared/

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-n...-and-corporate-structure-of-tottenham-hotspur

I think that's about as good as you're going to get.

 

[PowerSpurs]

He’s the highest paid director in the league isn’t he?

I think Woodward at Man Utd was the highest in the most recent accounts.

 

[PowerSpurs]

wow, that's a first i've heard for a defence.

Just stating a fact. I don't have an opinion on whether he is paid the right amount.

 

[PowerSpurs]

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-n...-and-corporate-structure-of-tottenham-hotspur

I think that's about as good as you're going to get.

It's actually a very good summary....thanks for posting it.

 

[BobbyD]

Just stating a fact. I don't have an opinion on whether he is paid the right amount.

you said Levy doesn't "eat into the profits" because he gets paid and is an expense.

By virtue of the fact that he's is an expense/liability on the clubs cashflow, that affects the profits at the club. If he wasn't paid his 10m (or whatever it is), if you're profit was 0 at the end of the year it would have been 10m so i don't get your defence line at all.

 

[PowerSpurs]

I think people get pissed off at the fact that every project gets tackled in the right manner but the football one. They are all ENICs projects..our club is one of their projects. They happily blew their own arses off to get their Football stadium project done and dusted at any cost(for example)…Hotels…bam…they go up, no expenses spared etc etc.

Some of us want them to show the same zest for the football team project or **** off and let someone else show that zest for the football team.
It’s quite simple I think…I and I reckon the majority of other fans didn’t start supporting Spurs to see how well the owners do in their other projects. I couldn’t give a **** about them yet these other projects are always needing to be factored in for whenever we want to progress the first team…ENIC are always crying poverty when it comes to the football team so I guess people get pissed off when they see ENIC play their hand with the other projects and I guess that’s how these other projects have something to do with the football side.

We all know Levy took his eye off the team whilst balls deep in the stadium build…that’s why these other projects are important distractions and rightfully mentioned and vilified.

It’s their whole stinking demeanour and attitude when it comes to improving the team compared to their hunger and drive for their other ****ing projects.

The whole point of all these projects is to increase revenue so that more can be spent on the team.

 

[Diego]

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-n...-and-corporate-structure-of-tottenham-hotspur

I think that's about as good as you're going to get.

That is one mixed up business structure

On a quick skim the company's could be sold off in blocks which could end up in a total disaster for you.
You do get the NFL money

I found this bit interesting though

THSL owns and operates the stadium and contributed £96m in revenues in 2019-20. It earns income from ticket sales, corporate hospitality and, we presume, match day food and drink sales

So much for the bigger stadium bringing in more matchday revenue.

 

[BobbyD]

They're not spending money on those projects, though. They pay for themselves.
The value of the club increases every time they do any of it, so they can't really miss out.
That's not remotely true in the case of an Ndombele, for example.

Our transfer spending has increased since the move to the new place.
The increased revenue has seen more money being spent on players, for the most part.
The pandemic has clearly ****ed that up, though.
Clubs that are still massively spending are either enormous or backed by crooks.

Where are they getting the money for the investments though from the starting capital for the initial purchase to the ongoing costs? Surely it's not paid for 100% by a bank loan? At the very lease, even if it is a loan and low interest, the interest + the repayments must be coming out of the club as whatever ongoing project that is going on presumably isn't generating any revenue until it's complete

 

[PowerSpurs]

you said Levy doesn't "eat into the profits" because he gets paid and is an expense.

By virtue of the fact that he's is an expense/liability on the clubs cashflow, that affects the profits at the club. If he wasn't paid his 10m (or whatever it is), if you're profit was 0 at the end of the year it would have been 10m so i don't get your defence line at all.

Entirely true but my original post said that ENIC had not taken a penny of the profit (in response to a claim that ENIC had trousered the money). What the club chooses to pay Levy is entirely irrelevant to that discussion.

 

[PowerSpurs]

That is one mixed up business structure

On a quick skim the company's could be sold off in blocks which could end up in a total disaster for you.
You do get the NFL money

I found this bit interesting though

THSL owns and operates the stadium and contributed £96m in revenues in 2019-20. It earns income from ticket sales, corporate hospitality and, we presume, match day food and drink sales

So much for the bigger stadium bringing in more matchday revenue.

You have not understood it at all then.
All the subsidiaries are owned by THL (the football club) who would keep any money from selling any assets and all the profit from the stadium.

 

[BobbyD]

Entirely true but my original post said that ENIC had not taken a penny of the profit (in response to a claim that ENIC had trousered the money). What the club chooses to pay Levy is entirely irrelevant to that discussion.

That's semantics.

It's similar to how City pass FFP because the arabs give some dubious sponsorship to City but as it's not been directly given from the owners it's fine