LFC Stats and Analytics

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moreinjuredthanowen said:
any chart than includes XG simply won't be anything like the true detail. :) Its all subjective.

however simply put, no two oppositions are the same. to compare what the team needs to do against them is as pointless as comparing sheep and goats.

You simply cannot say the press was "worse" in one game over the other purely on a set of numbers. you simply have to take into account the opposition reaction to the press and all that good stuff.

For example guiata kicked the ball out of play at least 6 times, straight out under the press, in contrast milan were shell shocked and we were encouraged higher press trying to knock it about at the back.
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I agree with you. You have less pressing opportunities when the opposition don't have the ball. Therefore looking at just absolute numbers isn't the best way.
But those charts factor that in already because pressing / possession adjusted

However our efficiency was definitely worse when you look at the efficiency percentage - that's irrespective of the volume of presses.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I agree with you. You have less pressing opportunities when the opposition don't have the ball. Therefore looking at just absolute numbers isn't the best way.
But those charts factor that in already because pressing / possession adjusted

However our efficiency was definitely worse when you look at the efficiency percentage - that's irrespective of the volume of presses.
Click to expand...

depends what you can call "worse" based on whether its a direct possession turn over or their keeper lumping it out.

For exmaple i would say against norwich for example we might look like heros as a first team as they will simply keep trying to so the stupid thing and not clear it whereas palace might just lump it long and be happy with a 50/50 up there or kick it straight out.

Exmaples in your charts in lude how many "chain" presses where you chase one guy after another and both have a max of 5 but what does that hide? Palace once passed it 5 times unitl they nede dup having to lump it?

AC milan no matter hwo bad we destroyed them kept passing it short at the back. the equivalent of lemmings jumping off a cliff. I'm not so sure your charts REALLY take any of that into account and certainly we cannot compare directly the results of efforts without the context.

It is crystal clear we put in the single most intense performance in 2 years v ac milan. 3 days later we played palace and it clear the same energy levels are not possible and we also rotated players etc. that doesn't mean press was "worse" though
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
depends what you can call "worse" based on whether its a direct possession turn over or their keeper lumping it out.

For exmaple i would say against norwich for example we might look like heros as a first team as they will simply keep trying to so the stupid thing and not clear it whereas palace might just lump it long and be happy with a 50/50 up there or kick it straight out.

Exmaples in your charts in lude how many "chain" presses where you chase one guy after another and both have a max of 5 but what does that hide? Palace once passed it 5 times unitl they nede dup having to lump it?

AC milan no matter hwo bad we destroyed them kept passing it short at the back. the equivalent of lemmings jumping off a cliff. I'm not so sure your charts REALLY take any of that into account and certainly we cannot compare directly the results of efforts without the context.

It is crystal clear we put in the single most intense performance in 2 years v ac milan. 3 days later we played palace and it clear the same energy levels are not possible and we also rotated players etc. that doesn't mean press was "worse" though
Click to expand...

The press was worse because of those reasons you stated.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Set pieces ...

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Its amazing how putting two proper targets in there allows the rest to be far better

The delivery is not even that great TBH, once we even get it past the first man then the big mean are in the mix and the rest are all over the second balls.

Leeds example:

Trent delivery. Leeds are playing the zonal game more than actually man marking and looking to lay hands on.

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trent has played out here and vvd drops off rather than heads in. clearly preworked and signalled.

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Note other players.

Mane has gone near post. hes turned already looking for second ball. Look at far post runner. His maker is looking at the ball. the runner will head for the danger zone and have a tap in if it happens to go his way.
Leeds are watching our outside the box shooters.
Fabinho and matip are actually moving toward goal already and their markers are ball watching.

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VVD knocks down and fabinho is already gone. I think jota's market has left him as well totally so if Fabinho knocks it out there he is in.

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now look. jota decides to pull out and everyone is going to fabinho. Mane actually runs in looking for scraps in case something breaks or is blocked.


Its really simple stuff. just putting the forwards (salah, mane, jota) in positions to go near and far and putting it towards the big men and looking for the second ball.
 
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moreinjuredthanowen said:
Its amazing how putting two proper targets in there allows the rest to be far better

The delivery is not even that great TBH, once we even get it past the first man then the big mean are in the mix and the rest are all over the second balls.

Leeds example:

Trent delivery. Leeds are playing the zonal game more than actually man marking and looking to lay hands on.

You must log in or register to see images

trent has played out here and vvd drops off rather than heads in. clearly preworked and signalled.

You must log in or register to see images

Note other players.

Mane has gone near post. hes turned already looking for second ball. Look at far post runner. His maker is looking at the ball. the runner will head for the danger zone and have a tap in if it happens to go his way.
Leeds are watching our outside the box shooters.
Fabinho and matip are actually moving toward goal already and their markers are ball watching.

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VVD knocks down and fabinho is already gone. I think jota's market has left him as well totally so if Fabinho knocks it out there he is in.

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now look. jota decides to pull out and everyone is going to fabinho. Mane actually runs in looking for scraps in case something breaks or is blocked.


Its really simple stuff. just putting the forwards (salah, mane, jota) in positions to go near and far and putting it towards the big men and looking for the second ball.
Click to expand...

VVD usually drops off the back stick, always looking to nod it back in for others.
 
Konate adds another series threat as well. Think he scored a few goals I’ve run Germany so would add more than Gomez does from set pieces
 
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moreinjuredthanowen said:
Joe actually ends up as the last man back so he really is zero threat from set piece. It's amazing a cb would do that but his pace does make sense
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Yeah true. I’d imagine end up having Robbo/TAA depending which is taking corner and Thiago as last men back for corners going forward if playing vvd and konate.

Have a surprisingly decent aerial threat with vvd konate Fabinho Jota with Salah mane lurking and Hendo outside the box. Juat enough height and presence to cause problems even if they don’t score from the first header.
 
InBiscanWeTrust said:
Yeah true. I’d imagine end up having Robbo/TAA depending which is taking corner and Thiago as last men back for corners going forward if playing vvd and konate.

Have a surprisingly decent aerial threat with vvd konate Fabinho Jota with Salah mane lurking and Hendo outside the box. Juat enough height and presence to cause problems even if they don’t score from the first header.
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Seems to be working anyway. Teams are drawn to the big lads. The better teams are engaging in pulling and dragging to stop them on the endgame of the box as refs have returned to blown up for a free out if anyone falls over.
 
This really was end to end. There was no prolonged period of dominance which is very unusual for us...

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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
This really was end to end. There was no prolonged period of dominance which is very unusual for us...

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Click to expand...

when a team has a big target and are more than willing to hoof it at them then it must be quite difficult to press successfully?

Overall it also shows a real inability to keep the ball as we like to play fast and play loose to create chances and then they get it and smash it down at toney who had matip on toast for breakfast.

IMO its high time we stop the matip ball licking and start wondering when do we start working konate in against the target men type teams and saving matip for CL and such.
 
right time for the real stats!

1. The top 6 table (only super league clubs need apply so **** off Leicester/wet ham/ anyone not acting like a complete dick)

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this tells us interesting things already. First Both chelsea and city have got a lot of "big games" out of the way early. Second utd have had none.

It also tells me both title contenders got out of anfield not giving LFC a lead on them so they will be very very happy.

2. The Bottom V top game.
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Its a bit early for this game but its fun irrespective. The main thing it tells us this early is we have played more bottom half gams so far. If you look to the run in we have for the title race it is tough.

3. the blocks of 4 piss take.
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No so hot so far. This block can be sort of recovered

4. The pointless trending chart
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Not stellar like we did before and not even as good as last year but still early.

Overall this should be telling people the defence is still finding its feet where the consistency is there across the 90mins and all parts are functioning.
 
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this is the "oh if you concede more goals you get less points" chart.

Note our goal scoring for block 2 might have even improved once we play game 8 (hopefully it will) but as we have more than doubled the amount of goals thrown in the point have fallen.

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Last year you will note that we actually manage to reduce the amount of goals conceded to compensate for the complete and utter lack of CBS but we compromised the forwards so badly that after block 4 (aak christmas) we sank without a trace and counts score to save ourselves.

whats this telling us?

get the balance right and we will win more games. simple as that. Last weekend the balance was wrong. Too defensive and passive first half 0-0 and then too attacking second where we ended up 2-2

we are trying to find the balance still
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
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this is the "oh if you concede more goals you get less points" chart.

Note our goal scoring for block 2 might have even improved once we play game 8 (hopefully it will) but as we have more than doubled the amount of goals thrown in the point have fallen.

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Last year you will note that we actually manage to reduce the amount of goals conceded to compensate for the complete and utter lack of CBS but we compromised the forwards so badly that after block 4 (aak christmas) we sank without a trace and counts score to save ourselves.

whats this telling us?

get the balance right and we will win more games. simple as that. Last weekend the balance was wrong. Too defensive and passive first half 0-0 and then too attacking second where we ended up 2-2

we are trying to find the balance still
Click to expand...

The balance was ruined when we lost Trent and Thiago (plus Naby and Elliot). If only we had a period of time before the season started where you can buy players ...

But in all seriousness, we will look better once Naby / Thiago play the LCM, and Trent is back at RB.
 
The pressing volumes (adjusted to account for possession) was very intense in the initial stages and we maintained a decent level for the remainder.

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But this was the issue - the volume of presses was high but the efficiency was very very poor. You would expect the efficiency to drop against quality teams like City but this was even worse than expected.

There were no presses which led to shots or a counter attack (a key part of our armoury) ...

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We pressed 248 times which is high but we failed 65 times which is the most in a single match under Klopp

Hendo highest volume and his highest in any match since Barca H. but 14 fails 2nd most by any player in any game ever (Hendo 15 v PSG away). Only Salah and Mane have good pressing numbers and Jota to an extent (more fails, but more wins)

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In summary - our pressing performance vs Man City was not the structured gegenpressing that Klopp is famed for and was nowhere near our defensive peak in 2018-2020.

This was like having 11 Adam Lallana's on the pitch - lot of intense running but with little intelligence. Headless chickens.
 
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