question for athiests

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I don't know if an unknowable god exists.

There are unknowable elements hinted at in quantum physics. So far there's been no suggestion of a god.

As for a crash course. Go and study it yourself.

how about an unknowable creator?

Quantum physics does not attempt to address the creator question really does it?

and dont be a git, explain
 
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. ignorance [ˈɪgnərəns]. n. lack of knowledge, information, or education; the state of being ignorant ... TFWNN
 
Craig, if it's accepted that the oldest religions of which we are aware of are, say, 7-8,000 years old then I do hope religion was not invented as a moral compass to guide before the invention of laws as that would suggest we were amoral before!! I totally agree that religion should have died a death, I think it's the biggest money spinner on the planet.
I think its pretty certain that 7-8000 years ago we were amoral, I can't imagine many men in the Neolithic period having qualms about rape for example.
 
There are plenty of theories as to how and why religion might have evolved, Richard Dawkins summarises a few in The God Delusion, but there are more detailed expositions elsewhere.

Off course, the claim of the religious is that pre-“civilisation” man’s habit of deifying rocks, the sea, the thunder or whatever is “proof” of the immanence of religion within the human condition, ergo, proving religion itself. Ditto human traits like generosity, kindness, tendency to cooperation and community and so on. All down to the deity, y’know. Otherwise it’s all “movement of atoms”.

Altruistic behaviour is a RESULT of natural selection. It's what Richard Dawkins wrote his first book about in 1976, and has been detailed in masses of studies ever since. Altruism is a powerful tool for survival among social mammals like ourselves. There is a powerful selection pressure that promotes it.

On the back of our evolved social altruism we get civilization, agriculture, science, medicine, art and culture. The true weakness is selfishness, self-centredness and isolation, because that shuts an individual off from the vastly greater resources of shared effort.

Many other creatures have developed altruism. It’s not universal, because not all animals have evolved in social communities. Sharks have evolved as lone hunters in the main. Altruism is not a very good survival strategy when you're configured to be a lone hunter. But for intelligent, social, group-living creatures like primates it's absolutely vital.

Nothing to do with magic sky wizards who stood by for something like 150,000 years while humans were dying of tooth decay by 20 and cowering terrified from the thunder and the earthquakes (must be the gods). And no amazing coincidence that this deification of natural phenomena transferred to something more formal on the advent of agriculture and civilisation as we might know it.

I’m not sure Darwin ever said “survival of the fittest” but either way he wasn’t talking about a “nasty, brutish and short" Hobbesian free for all.

If you’d ever read a book that dealt in reason and logic you might already have gathered that.
 
Why would they? Laws as we know them have only been a requirement to ensure the survival of large scale communities. Prior to that rules only applied within your own settlement or family group. There was no need to protect those not within them. The point of laws is to protect yourself, not those outside your collective.
Amoral is a pointless term.

Agreed.
I'll stick with my belief that religion was invented to keep the masses in their place.
 
close the door on your way out. Thanks <ok>

You clearly don t take an active interest in your 6 children? How do you hold down a job, go to Mosque keep making new kids help your pregnant wife prepare food, bath time and supervise their homework etc? And still post on this groundhog day thread?...... Some or all of your story is bullshit
 
There are plenty of theories as to how and why religion might have evolved, Richard Dawkins summarises a few in The God Delusion, but there are more detailed expositions elsewhere.

Off course, the claim of the religious in that pre-&#8220;civilisation&#8221; man&#8217;s habit of deifying rocks, the sea, the thunder or whatever is &#8220;proof&#8221; of the immanence of religion within the human condition, ergo, proving religion itself. Ditto human traits like generosity, kindness, tendency to cooperation and community and so on. All down to the deity, y&#8217;know. Otherwise it&#8217;s all &#8220;movement of atoms&#8221;.

Altruistic behaviour is a RESULT of natural selection. It's what Richard Dawkins wrote his first book about in 1976, and has been detailed in masses of studies ever since. Altruism is a powerful tool for survival among social mammals like ourselves. There is a powerful selection pressure that promotes it.

On the back of our evolved social altruism we get civilization, agriculture, science, medicine, art and culture. The true weakness is selfishness, self-centredness and isolation, because that shuts an individual off from the vastly greater resources of shared effort.

Many other creatures have developed altruism. It&#8217;s not universal, because not all animals have evolved in social communities. Sharks have evolved as lone hunters in the main. Altruism is not a very good survival strategy when you're configured to be a lone hunter. But for intelligent, social, group-living creatures like primates it's absolutely vital.

Nothing to do with magic sky wizards who stood by for something like 150,000 years while humans were dying of tooth decay by 20 and cowering terrified from the thunder and the earthquakes (must be the gods). And no amazing coincidence that this deification of natural phenomena transferred to something more formal on the advent of agriculture and civilisation as we might know it.

I&#8217;m not sure Darwin ever said &#8220;survival of the fittest&#8221; but either way he wasn&#8217;t talking about a &#8220;nasty, brutish and short Hobbesian free for all.

If you&#8217;d ever read a book that dealt in reason and logic you might already have gathered that.[/QUOTE]

If you had read the OP you would realise we are talking about how the universe began

oh and Darwin first used Spencer's phrase "survival of the fittest" as a synonym for natural selection in the fifth edition of On the Origin of Species, published in 1869
 
You clearly don t take an active interest in your 6 children? How do you hold down a job, go to Mosque keep making new kids help your pregnant wife prepare food, bath time and supervise their homework etc? And still post on this groundhog day thread?...... Some or all of your story is bullshit

I dont have a 'typical' job at the moment

Its all true. never felt the need to lie.