I doubt they all hold exactly the same view. Some may have political sympathies.
The knee will always be divisive. Rubbing it into people's faces, does nothing for race relations imo
Off Topic The Politics Thread
- Thread starter Stroller
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
I doubt they all hold exactly the same view. Some may have political sympathies.
The knee will always be divisive. Rubbing it into people's faces, does nothing for race relations imo
I couldnt care less if they took the knee or not, but since they explained the reasons that they decided to, i respect them for doing so.
It’s only divisive to people who are scared of what it stands for - a simple, bold and unequivocal statement that you reject racism. The vast majority of people understand this, they don’t think multi millionaire footballers have posters of Che Guevara on their bedroom walls and are diligently plotting the downfall of capitalism, or that they are being manipulated by a far left terrorist organisation. They are simply making a point. I’m only seeing hard right wingers whine on about Marxism etc and call for the knee to be banned, or booed, or derided as a ‘gesture’ (of course its a ****ing gesture, doh, gestures are a form of communication and assertion) because they are trying desperately to convince us that it stands for something other than what it clearly does stand for, and in their next breath they hypocritically reject cancel culture. It’s fair enough to criticise taking the knee as ineffectual (I don’t think it is. The booing died down. Kids see their genuine heroes like Rashford and even more importantly Kane and Maguire, taking part and occasionally the message sinks in. But it isn’t going to change the world) but this diversionary stuff is just sinister.
Guto Harri has now quit GB News, calling it an ‘absurd parody’ of what it set out to be. I think he is wrong, it’s just dropping the pretence that it’s anything other than an alt right mouthpiece run by amateurs. Trump supporter and Steve Bannon disciple Nigel Farage given more air time, screaming that he will ‘never take the knee for anyone’ which is of course just as divisive and political as taking the knee, if you are inclined to think that way. Bet he doesn’t get taken off the air though. Shame there will be no one watching him. I hope they do fulfill their original promise and provide a platform for free speech, including racists, hyper nationalists, George Galloway Arabist Socialists/Ba’athists, Islamic fundamentalists, David Icke followers etc. Just to see how many people watch then.
Last edited:
don’t worry only a flying visit but if stuff like this is being posted I’d be tempted to visit more often. This is post of the year IMO, absolutely nails it. When was it we last heard from the political group using the BLM name? No me either. One good thing I’ve noticed recently is the England team united a large part of the U.K. and the the moderates and usually quiet have seen more of what happens, and more and more of them are being vocal against the racists and wanting change. Thanks Again sb for a brilliant post.
Covid: Boris Johnson resisted autumn lockdown as only over-80s dying - Dominic Cummings
Published
2 hours ago
Share
Related Topics
media captionBoris Johnson "put his own interests ahead of people's lives"
Boris Johnson was reluctant to tighten Covid restrictions as cases rose last autumn because he thought people dying from it were "essentially all over 80", Dominic Cummings has claimed.
He also said the prime minister had messaged him to say: "I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff."
Mr Johnson had wanted to let Covid "wash through the country" rather than destroy the economy, Mr Cummings said.
The claims came in an interview with BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg.
It is the first time Mr Cummings - Mr Johnson's former chief adviser - has given a one-on-one TV interview during his career in politics.
In response, Downing Street said the prime minister had taken the "necessary action to protect lives and livelihoods, guided by the best scientific advice" throughout the pandemic.
And the government had prevented the NHS "from being overwhelmed through three national lockdowns", a spokesperson added.
And he defended his controversial decision to drive to his parents' farm in County Durham after the first lockdown started, but admitted he had not "come clean" about all the reasons behind it, including "security concerns" around his family home in London.
This is the first major interview Mr Cummings has given, but he has answered MPs' questions on the government's response to Covid.
The claims made at that session were explosive, but he's since been criticised for failing to provide the evidence to back up some of those assertions.
Dominic Cummings: The Interview will be broadcast in the UK on BBC Two at 19:00 BST on Tuesday, and it will be available on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sounds
Covid cases dipped last summer but began to rise rapidly again as autumn started, prompting a debate within government about what measures were needed.
Mr Cummings told the BBC that he, UK chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance and England's chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty had pushed for tougher restrictions from mid-September - Sir Patrick and Professor Whitty declined to comment.
Mr Cummings went on to allege Mr Johnson had said: "No, no no, no, no, I'm not doing it."
The prime minister had "parts of the media and Tory party screaming" not to increase restrictions and "always referred" to the Daily Telegraph, for which he had previously written a column, as "my real boss", Mr Cummings said.
image captionDominic Cummings quit as the PM's chief adviser last autumn following a Downing Street power struggle
On 13 October, with Covid deaths having risen to more than 100 a day, Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer called for a "circuit-breaker" lockdown of two to three weeks, but the government decided against this.
In a WhatsApp message sent on 15 October, shared with the BBC, Mr Johnson appears to have described himself as "slightly rocked by some of the data on Covid fatalities".
The "median age" for those dying was between 81 and 82 for men and 85 for women, the prime minister allegedly wrote, adding: "That is above life expectancy. So get Covid and Live longer.
"Hardly anyone under 60 goes into hospital... and of those virtually all survive. And I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff. Folks I think we may need to recalibrate... There are max 3m in this country aged over 80."
He reportedly went on to write: "It shows we don't go for nationwide lockdown."
But the prime minister announced a four-week lockdown for England on 31 October, saying this was needed to protect the NHS as figures suggested deaths could reach "several thousand a day" without "tough action".
Queen meetings row
Looking back to the start of the pandemic, Mr Cummings told the BBC he had intervened to stop Mr Johnson continuing to see the Queen, then aged 93, for weekly face-to-face meetings.
Mr Cummings claimed that, on 18 March last year, the PM had said: "I'm going to see the Queen... That's what I do every Wednesday. Sod this. I'm going to go and see her."
image captionBoris Johnson's face-to-face meetings with the Queen did not restart until June this year
He added that he had told Mr Johnson: "There's people in this office who are isolating. You might have coronavirus. I might have coronavirus.
"You can't go and see the Queen. What if you go and see her and give the Queen coronavirus? You obviously can't go."
He continued: "I just said, 'If you give her coronavirus and she dies, what are you going to [do]? You can't do that. You can't risk that. That's completely insane.'
"And [the PM] said - he basically just hadn't thought it through - 'Yeah...I can't go'."
Downing Street denied that this incident took place and Buckingham Palace declined to comment.
Long drive north
On 27 March last year, four days after the first lockdown began, Mr Cummings drove his wife and son from London to his parents' farm in County Durham.
While staying there, he made a 30-mile road journey to Barnard Castle on 12 April, which he later said had been to test his eyesight before the 260-mile drive back to London.
When these details were revealed they provoked huge anger - and accusations of double standards at a time when the government had banned all but essential long-distance travel.
In his BBC interview, Mr Cummings said that, during the Barnard Castle trip, he had been trying to work out "Do I feel OK driving?"
image captionDominic Cummings faced the press in the Downing Street garden last May
He also said he had decided to move his family to County Durham before his wife fell ill with suspected Covid because of security concerns over his home in London.
Asked why he had given a story that was "not the 100% truth" when he held a special press conference in the Downing Street rose garden on 25 May, Mr Cummings admitted that "the way we handled the whole thing was wrong".
"What I should have done is either just resigned and said nothing about anything," he said, "or I should have spoken to my family and said, 'Listen, we're just gonna have to come clean about the whole thing.'"
'Entirely focused'
Mr Cummings was repeatedly challenged throughout the interview to back up his version of events.
He says many of his claims will be corroborated if there is a public inquiry.
A Downing Street spokesperson said: "Since the start of the pandemic, the prime minister has taken the necessary action to protect lives and livelihoods, guided by the best scientific advice.
"The government he leads has delivered the fastest vaccination rollout in Europe, saved millions of jobs through the furlough scheme and prevented the NHS from being overwhelmed through three national lockdowns.
"The government is entirely focused on emerging cautiously from the pandemic and building back better."
Published
2 hours ago
Share
Related Topics
media captionBoris Johnson "put his own interests ahead of people's lives"
Boris Johnson was reluctant to tighten Covid restrictions as cases rose last autumn because he thought people dying from it were "essentially all over 80", Dominic Cummings has claimed.
He also said the prime minister had messaged him to say: "I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff."
Mr Johnson had wanted to let Covid "wash through the country" rather than destroy the economy, Mr Cummings said.
The claims came in an interview with BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg.
It is the first time Mr Cummings - Mr Johnson's former chief adviser - has given a one-on-one TV interview during his career in politics.
In response, Downing Street said the prime minister had taken the "necessary action to protect lives and livelihoods, guided by the best scientific advice" throughout the pandemic.
And the government had prevented the NHS "from being overwhelmed through three national lockdowns", a spokesperson added.
- Kuenssberg on Cummings interview: His words matter
- Thousands died needlessly after mistakes - Cummings
- Dominic Cummings: Who is the PM's former adviser?
And he defended his controversial decision to drive to his parents' farm in County Durham after the first lockdown started, but admitted he had not "come clean" about all the reasons behind it, including "security concerns" around his family home in London.
This is the first major interview Mr Cummings has given, but he has answered MPs' questions on the government's response to Covid.
The claims made at that session were explosive, but he's since been criticised for failing to provide the evidence to back up some of those assertions.
You must log in or register to see images
Dominic Cummings: The Interview will be broadcast in the UK on BBC Two at 19:00 BST on Tuesday, and it will be available on BBC iPlayer and BBC Sounds
You must log in or register to see images
Covid cases dipped last summer but began to rise rapidly again as autumn started, prompting a debate within government about what measures were needed.
Mr Cummings told the BBC that he, UK chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance and England's chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty had pushed for tougher restrictions from mid-September - Sir Patrick and Professor Whitty declined to comment.
Mr Cummings went on to allege Mr Johnson had said: "No, no no, no, no, I'm not doing it."
The prime minister had "parts of the media and Tory party screaming" not to increase restrictions and "always referred" to the Daily Telegraph, for which he had previously written a column, as "my real boss", Mr Cummings said.
You must log in or register to see images
IMAGE COPYRIGHTPA MEDIAimage captionDominic Cummings quit as the PM's chief adviser last autumn following a Downing Street power struggle
On 13 October, with Covid deaths having risen to more than 100 a day, Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer called for a "circuit-breaker" lockdown of two to three weeks, but the government decided against this.
In a WhatsApp message sent on 15 October, shared with the BBC, Mr Johnson appears to have described himself as "slightly rocked by some of the data on Covid fatalities".
The "median age" for those dying was between 81 and 82 for men and 85 for women, the prime minister allegedly wrote, adding: "That is above life expectancy. So get Covid and Live longer.
"Hardly anyone under 60 goes into hospital... and of those virtually all survive. And I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff. Folks I think we may need to recalibrate... There are max 3m in this country aged over 80."
He reportedly went on to write: "It shows we don't go for nationwide lockdown."
But the prime minister announced a four-week lockdown for England on 31 October, saying this was needed to protect the NHS as figures suggested deaths could reach "several thousand a day" without "tough action".
Queen meetings row
Looking back to the start of the pandemic, Mr Cummings told the BBC he had intervened to stop Mr Johnson continuing to see the Queen, then aged 93, for weekly face-to-face meetings.
Mr Cummings claimed that, on 18 March last year, the PM had said: "I'm going to see the Queen... That's what I do every Wednesday. Sod this. I'm going to go and see her."
You must log in or register to see images
IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERSimage captionBoris Johnson's face-to-face meetings with the Queen did not restart until June this year
He added that he had told Mr Johnson: "There's people in this office who are isolating. You might have coronavirus. I might have coronavirus.
"You can't go and see the Queen. What if you go and see her and give the Queen coronavirus? You obviously can't go."
He continued: "I just said, 'If you give her coronavirus and she dies, what are you going to [do]? You can't do that. You can't risk that. That's completely insane.'
"And [the PM] said - he basically just hadn't thought it through - 'Yeah...I can't go'."
Downing Street denied that this incident took place and Buckingham Palace declined to comment.
Long drive north
On 27 March last year, four days after the first lockdown began, Mr Cummings drove his wife and son from London to his parents' farm in County Durham.
While staying there, he made a 30-mile road journey to Barnard Castle on 12 April, which he later said had been to test his eyesight before the 260-mile drive back to London.
When these details were revealed they provoked huge anger - and accusations of double standards at a time when the government had banned all but essential long-distance travel.
In his BBC interview, Mr Cummings said that, during the Barnard Castle trip, he had been trying to work out "Do I feel OK driving?"
You must log in or register to see images
IMAGE COPYRIGHTPA MEDIAimage captionDominic Cummings faced the press in the Downing Street garden last May
He also said he had decided to move his family to County Durham before his wife fell ill with suspected Covid because of security concerns over his home in London.
Asked why he had given a story that was "not the 100% truth" when he held a special press conference in the Downing Street rose garden on 25 May, Mr Cummings admitted that "the way we handled the whole thing was wrong".
"What I should have done is either just resigned and said nothing about anything," he said, "or I should have spoken to my family and said, 'Listen, we're just gonna have to come clean about the whole thing.'"
'Entirely focused'
Mr Cummings was repeatedly challenged throughout the interview to back up his version of events.
He says many of his claims will be corroborated if there is a public inquiry.
A Downing Street spokesperson said: "Since the start of the pandemic, the prime minister has taken the necessary action to protect lives and livelihoods, guided by the best scientific advice.
"The government he leads has delivered the fastest vaccination rollout in Europe, saved millions of jobs through the furlough scheme and prevented the NHS from being overwhelmed through three national lockdowns.
"The government is entirely focused on emerging cautiously from the pandemic and building back better."
You could always watch George and his Mrs on RT on Saturday nights…..’Sputnik orbiting the world’…..you might even enjoy it as he interviews some very interesting people and talks some interesting subjects.
First, you're deluding yourself when you say the "vast majority of people" support taking the knee. This survey taken last month shows less than half of football fans support it:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/england-taking-the-knee-fans-20804445
Second, taking the knee is an American gesture aimed at American race problems (that vastly exceed any we have in the UK). The US has two problems - high black crime rates, and endemic racist attitudes of many cops to black offenders like George Floyd. Floyd was murdered in the US, yet we then had violent demonstrations in the UK where British police were attacked. The submissive act of taking the knee over here just puts it into the mind of those that are ignorant that Floyd gave them justifiable grievances. Which goes on to my third point...
Imo there's a real risk by the continual submission to the knee, that it will push young black people towards the negative attitude of victimhood, rather than the positivity so many are showing now coming out of the school system. Racial discrimination must be eradicated at every opportunity, and looking at recent education results, much of the BAME population is succeeding. White working class and black West Indians are the sections of society underperforming at school.
Fourth comes the political point, that the BLM in the US is a neo-Marxist movement, which its founders admit it is. It's interesting to see from Twitter that most young wokies have no idea about this.
As far as GB News is concerned, I think it will succeed. I'd invest in it. It amuses me how all the liberal luvvies get so exercised about it. If they don't like the idea, they need not ****ing watch it. Farage now has an important slot (last night, interviewing "rebel" Sir Graham Brady). Farage is an natural presenter and is prepared to have a debate with anyone. He'll increase the audience figures, and indeed will Andrew Neil when he returns from his extended break.
Superb post and bang on the money. Seems like the people who have issues with it are the people who have issues themselves.
Great post IMO…….I’d also add that it is certain members of society that benefit from us, the people, being divided…be it on race, gender or sexual preference issues…….all the while this continues, groups Like BLM will continue to flourish and continue to divide. If it suits the powers that be……
Again totally agree on GB news….never have I seen so many middle class liberals be so upset at something that they vow never to watch. Personally can’t stand Farage, but end up having to put up with him due to the fact that he also has one of my heroes, Paul Embery on a Sunday morning…..also they had GG on for an interview among other Left Wing voices….so hardly just a voice of the ‘right’. Il also add that there does seem to be more black faces on the channel than I see on BBC or Sky…the racist bastards.
I think I’ve made it quite clear why I’m against it Bob……so what issues do I have ?
To be honest staines i didnt know you were against it. Im neither for or against. But if someone tells me they are doing something to promote anti racism and equality, whether that be by taking the knee, skipping down the road, standing on your head or tickling your bollox then i respect that as they have explained why they do so.
I’ve made it very clear mate, and my reasons why……it’s almost as if you never read my posts
.
I havent read them ha. Must have missed them. Each to their own. I respect any anti racism and equality gestures even if they are only just gestures.I’ve made it very clear mate, and my reasons why……it’s almost as if you never read my posts
Yeah well i will take southgates and the englands players reasons over why they did it. Unless they are complete liars of course.