Match Day Thread Euro 2021 Thread

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Exactly my thoughts the other day.

Both shoehorned into the Croatia match and aside from hitting the post neither did anything.

Mount was **** all tournament. How he started every game available and didn’t come off far sooner in the final is behind me.

I think you can play both, 4231 with mount either in the 2 with a DM next to him, or mount behind striker with foden out wide. Probel
is, foden isn’t your typical wide player as when he lays there for city he has a very different role to your typical speedy winger who goes down line or cuts inside. Plus you have sterling sancho saka Rashford in those wide roles who are more natural.

be interesting to see what foden does at city this season. Where he plays and how pep develops him

 

[Treble]

Fail to see what I got wrong about the England squad.

Didn't savage the squad or say its aload of crap. Also didn't say the Mancs are a bunch of ****e ****ers.... although (Note this is a joke)

I said there were still things the England squad lacked.

The Goalkeeper, at the moment Pickford is no1. But if people are being honest he's not a Worldclass keeper, nor ever will be. He's crap in the air and his goal kicking whilst long is wayward, not mention he can be hyper and be all over the place in games. He's a Good Prem keeper but wouldn't cut it in a title challenging team.

The CBs. Again didn't have a pop at Stones or Maguire, rather said they were the best England currently had to offer, but like Pickford wouldn't be considered WC but rather good defenders. Consider that Stones has been in and out of the City side for the last few seasons, clearly he's not top draw or he'd been commanding their backline rather than Laporte and then Dias.
Then there is a drop off to Mings and Coady who are solid Prem players and aside from Gomez, there isn't much more England have at international standard, so lack depth.

As to the leadership, guess thats a personal opinion. Kane has never struck me as a good cpt, nor it seems do Spurs or they'd have made him Cpt in order to keep him sweet.

England have a good squad and going forward to Qatar they should be expected to do well. However there are issues to be looked at in the next 18months.

I mean if the Squad was perfect they'd have walked the Euros and wouldn't have lost on Pens. And those issues about the GK and CBs were talked about alot before the Euros as being Englands biggest weaknesses.

I'm just surprised that of all the things we got wrong, you chose the one thing we got right - the defence. They all did everything that was asked of them. They don't need to be labelled as world class to do their job which they carried out admirably. And tbh what is world class anyway? I don't rate Pickford either but in two tournaments and through all the qualifiers he's always performed for England. Add to that the biggest indicator of all which was that we conceded only 2 goals the whole tournament.

In answer to your last point, the Squad was actually our biggest strength. We lost in the end due to poor tactics, substitutions and an over-cautious manager who couldn't quite see the plethora of talent at his disposal and used them poorly or not at all... and dare I say had his favourites who he wasn't prepared to sub/drop.

 

[Treble]

A front 3 of Sterling, Kane and Mount was just underwhelming. Kane probably had the best game out the 3 but by and large all of them weren't great.

It seems nowadays you can't say Sterling is overrated. He really is though. Yeh he can run with the ball, but you can predict what will happen 9 times out of 10 - he''ll eventually get to an opposition player and genuinely believe if he kicks the ball hard enough it will miraculously go through their legs. He does it time and time again and still hasn't learnt that basic physics won't allow it.

The fact our goal came from one full-back's assist to the another full-back who scored and that was the ONLY shot on target says it all really.

 

[Solid Air]

A front 3 of Sterling, Kane and Mount was just underwhelming. Kane probably had the best game out the 3 but by and large all of them weren't great.

It seems nowadays you can't say Sterling is overrated. He really is though. Yeh he can run with the ball, but you can predict what will happen 9 times out of 10 - he''ll eventually get to an opposition player and genuinely believe if he kicks the ball hard enough it will miraculously go through their legs. He does it time and time again and still hasn't learnt that basic physics won't allow it.

The fact our goal came from one full-back's assist to the another full-back who scored and that was the ONLY shot on target says it all really.

once he went with 3 CB's he needed to start Saka or Sancho as he did v Germany and push the FB's forward as much as possible to make a 4 in midfield . Instead we ended up with , as many feared , a back 5 though in reality it was often a back 7 .

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

In the end if you were going to make a list of top european sides england would be in there finally.

Germany on the slide.
Spain still quality but back to being one of the pack. (I can remember when they would never win)
Italy. Perennial winners
Netherlands. A long time past thier golden era.
Portugal, always good but always lack goals. Soon to return to that.
France. Massively strong.
Belgium. Constantly flattering to decieve.

We fit in there somewhere now.

All these other sides like austria, swiss, etc etc etc are a level below but previously we couldnt best them in tournaments.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

A front 3 of Sterling, Kane and Mount was just underwhelming. Kane probably had the best game out the 3 but by and large all of them weren't great.

Mount was in for the press but didn't offer anything in an attacking sense. Him playing on the left pushed Sterling to the right, when for some reason he's only really effective on the left. With both of them effectively out of the game in an attacking sense, Kane was starved of Service. He did his best in terms of link-up and hold-up play, but no touches in the penalty area all game is ominous. I like Mount, but his inclusion as the left forward messed up the whole system.

As @Solid_Air 2 said, put Sterling on the left and Saka or Sancho on the right it would probably have been more effective.

 

[Treble]

Mount was in for the press but didn't offer anything in an attacking sense. Him playing on the left pushed Sterling to the right, when for some reason he's only really effective on the left. With both of them effectively out of the game in an attacking sense, Kane was starved of Service. He did his best in terms of link-up and hold-up play, but no touches in the penalty area all game is ominous. I like Mount, but his inclusion as the left forward messed up the whole system.

As @Solid_Air 2 said, put Sterling on the left and Saka or Sancho on the right it would probably have been more effective.

It's really not rocket science is it. I know ppl say we're all "experts sitting on our sofas" but it's pretty straightforward at times.

Is Southgate trying to be too clever at times? Him deliberately not playing certain players which everyone was largely expecting/wanting him to play is another indicator of that imo.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

In the end if you were going to make a list of top european sides england would be in there finally.

Germany on the slide.
Spain still quality but back to being one of the pack. (I can remember when they would never win)
Italy. Perennial winners
Netherlands. A long time past thier golden era.
Portugal, always good but always lack goals. Soon to return to that.
France. Massively strong.
Belgium. Constantly flattering to decieve.

We fit in there somewhere now.

All these other sides like austria, swiss, etc etc etc are a level below but previously we couldnt best them in tournaments.

We're certainly in that pack and would give any of them a game. We're certainly better than the likes of Netherlands.

Germany I think are more in transition than on the slide; the slide was before WC2018. They've got decent players but the problem was the manager not getting the best out of them; they've turned into England. Löw basically just stayed on too long. Be interesting to see what Flick can do with them.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

It's really not rocket science is it. I know ppl say we're all "experts sitting on our sofas" but it's pretty straightforward at times.

Is Southgate trying to be too clever at times? Him deliberately not playing certain players which everyone was largely expecting/wanting him to play is another indicator of that imo.

He did a Guardiola.

You would have thought Sterling on the left was obvious. It's been our most effective tactic all tournament. I don't know if there were still Fitness issues with Saka and he didn't trust Sancho after an ok but not amazing performance, or if he just bottled it and wanted the extra press from Mount, but it seemed the wrong way to tinker it.

Then again, the first half it worked pretty well.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Walker maguire sterling in team of tournament. Sterling agree with. Maguire I can sort of understand even though didn’t think he stood out and passing was poor at times, was solid enough in a defence that conceded only 2 goals.

however Walker, I must have missed when he had a good game? Game 1 was worse player on pitch and from them his passing whole tournament was poor and he offered nothing going forward from RB. Used his pace to cover a few times, other than that was very average.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

We're certainly in that pack and would give any of them a game. We're certainly better than the likes of Netherlands.

Germany I think are more in transition than on the slide; the slide was before WC2018. They've got decent players but the problem was the manager not getting the best out of them; they've turned into England. Löw basically just stayed on too long. Be interesting to see what Flick can do with them.

Agree on low.

Netherlands with van dijk best england in nations league. I would agree they are quite mixed. Cannot believe barca want depay. Lunacy. They seem to have improved from where they were though. They were in the doldrums.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Walker maguire sterling in team of tournament. Sterling agree with. Maguire I can sort of understand even though didn’t think he stood out and passing was poor at times, was solid enough in a defence that conceded only 2 goals.

however Walker, I must have missed when he had a good game? Game 1 was worse player on pitch and from them his passing whole tournament was poor and he offered nothing going forward from RB. Used his pace to cover a few times, other than that was very average.

He was sweeping up behind making the cbs look good. He offered zero but outlasted Denmark and looked good at the end running up and down and keeping ball against a shattered side.

Hes a big brute, nothing much else.

 

[Garlic Klopp]

England lacked TAA to serve crosses and free kicks with accuracy.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

Walker maguire sterling in team of tournament. Sterling agree with. Maguire I can sort of understand even though didn’t think he stood out and passing was poor at times, was solid enough in a defence that conceded only 2 goals.

however Walker, I must have missed when he had a good game? Game 1 was worse player on pitch and from them his passing whole tournament was poor and he offered nothing going forward from RB. Used his pace to cover a few times, other than that was very average.

He was sweeping up behind making the cbs look good. He offered zero but outlasted Denmark and looked good at the end running up and down and keeping ball against a shattered side.

Hes a big brute, nothing much else.

A couple of sloppy passes earlier in the tournament aside, I thought he was solid defensively and his pace allowed him to make some good recovery runs, especially the few times we did play a high line.

But he was poor going forward, which is odd given that it used to be his strength. Fine for a RCB, less so for a RB.

 

[saintanton]

No offence, but reading back on this thread it seems to me that there's too much concentration on the details. Like poring over the pieces of a jigsaw and ignoring the big picture.
We can analyse the nuances of individual roles and performances until the cows come home but the big picture is that England under Southgate have a negative mind-set. I know I've said this several times already and I'm boring myself now, but it seems to me that this is the salient point, and everything else derives from this.
Currently England have a wealth of attacking talent that's being wasted due to the tactics employed. He's doggedly sticking to the approach he's comfortable with, rather than playing to the strengths of the team he has. It's like watching Mourinho strait-jacketing his creative players because he's obsessed with not giving anything away.
It's unadventurous and timid, and the players are capable of more.
Although I feel sorry for the team, in a sense I'm glad they didn't win, because I don't want to see that philosophy appear to succeed.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

No offence, but reading back on this thread it seems to me that there's too much concentration on the details. Like poring over the pieces of a jigsaw and ignoring the big picture.
We can analyse the nuances of individual roles and performances until the cows come home but the big picture is that England under Southgate have a negative mind-set. I know I've said this several times already and I'm boring myself now, but it seems to me that this is the salient point, and everything else derives from this.
Currently England have a wealth of attacking talent that's being wasted due to the tactics employed. He's doggedly sticking to the approach he's comfortable with, rather than playing to the strengths of the team he has. It's like watching Mourinho strait-jacketing his creative players because he's obsessed with not giving anything away.
It's unadventurous and timid, and the players are capable of more.
Although I feel sorry for the team, in a sense I'm glad they didn't win, because I don't want to see that philosophy appear to succeed.

It's a bit late to be moaning about people talking about unimportant things on here.

To go to your point though, it's true, but Southgate has his system and he wasn't going to change it just for the final (nor should he have). I think we've discussed his philosophy to death during the rest of the tournament. Assuming he doesn't quit, he's not going to be fired and there are no obvious candidates to replace him, so the question is will he adjust the System before the World cup? He'll be well aware that playing to our strengths also means exposing our weakness.

And if we're being honest, the football is any case ultimately irrelevant and the far more deserving topic of conversation are the various fan incidents that confirm the depresssing state of our society as a whole. But tbh I don't have the heart or the energy to concentrate on that for now and it's easier to focus on whether Sterling should have played left or right.

 

[Treble]

No offence, but reading back on this thread it seems to me that there's too much concentration on the details. Like poring over the pieces of a jigsaw and ignoring the big picture.
We can analyse the nuances of individual roles and performances until the cows come home but the big picture is that England under Southgate have a negative mind-set. I know I've said this several times already and I'm boring myself now, but it seems to me that this is the salient point, and everything else derives from this.
Currently England have a wealth of attacking talent that's being wasted due to the tactics employed. He's doggedly sticking to the approach he's comfortable with, rather than playing to the strengths of the team he has. It's like watching Mourinho strait-jacketing his creative players because he's obsessed with not giving anything away.
It's unadventurous and timid, and the players are capable of more.
Although I feel sorry for the team, in a sense I'm glad they didn't win, because I don't want to see that philosophy appear to succeed.

I think everyone's expressed that sentiment tbf. I don't know what it is, but every England manager over the past 20 years has started off with a more free flowing attitude and gradually gone more and more defensive until they've suffocated our natural game and sucked the confidence out of our attacking players (except Capello who started and finished with an ultra defensive mindset but the effect was the same).

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

I think everyone's expressed that sentiment tbf. I don't know what it is, but every England manager over the past 20 years has started off with a more free flowing attitude and gradually gone more and more defensive until they've suffocated our natural game and sucked the confidence out of our attacking players (except Capello who started and finished with an ultra defensive mindset but the effect was the same).

That famously free-flowing football of Hodgson and Allerdyce?

True of Sven though. Can't really remember with McClaren. Didn't we lose his final game 3-2?

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Got problems here with Virgin power outage so no telly or internet since yesterday and intermittent mobile data.

I'm late to the party with nothing new to add so just a few thoughts. Shaw deserved his goal, he's played well all tournament and took it excellently.

Sterling always bottles penalties.

Kane is a poor captain.

Saka is a great prospect. He seems a lovely young man and after the initial upset about missing his penalty, showed real maturity in handling the whole situation.

Grealish must have his boots greased up.

Would have liked to have seen more of Sancho and a few others.

You don't win finals playing safe.

 

[Treble]

That famously free-flowing football of Hodgson and Allerdyce?

True of Sven though. Can't really remember with McClaren. Didn't we lose his final game 3-2?

Fck that, I don't count them two. Although I would've been mildly interested with what Allardyce put out after his statement saying something about not judging him on his club football and that with better players he would bring better football.